Using Quotes from movies and books

Posted:
Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:15 am
by Wannabe writer
Legally and morally do we stand as philanthropic gamers?
Re: Using Quotes from movies and books

Posted:
Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:11 am
by Onix
Does that matter to the law?
Re: Using Quotes from movies and books

Posted:
Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:38 am
by Evil Scientist
I guess as long as you reference your sources and the length of the quote is normal (like, not 2 whole pages) it's fine.
Re: Using Quotes from movies and books

Posted:
Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:17 am
by kylesgames
Fair use is fair use. If you're using a snippet of a quote, it's okay. I remember that I have at least one book somewhere (Spycraft?) which basically opens each chapter with a one to three line quote from action movies or novels, and AFAIK they were never challenged over it (and never were in danger of being challenged).
Re: Using Quotes from movies and books

Posted:
Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:35 pm
by catty_big
Echoing Evil Scientist and kylesgames, I agree that fair use involves snippets here and there, whereas whole pages should be acknowledged. I personally wouldn't acknowledge anything that's in common use, and isn't longer than a sentence or two. But you may be thinking what counts as common use? Here are a few examples of quotes that I would put in this category:
I could have been a contender.
These are not the [...] you're looking for.
Are you talking to me?
I'll be back/Hasta la vista baby!
How about this one though?
You know how to whistle, don't you? You just put your lips together and blow
It's fairly iconic, but relatively obscure and not often quoted (you'd have to be a real movie buff to have heard of it), also it's two lines rather than a snippet, so is it fair game or not?
Re: Using Quotes from movies and books

Posted:
Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:11 pm
by kylesgames
You'll probably be fine. Attribution is helpful, always, but not even technically required. Attribution is a whole different thing; if about 80% or so of readers or more would understand it, you can probably leave it off (or put the attribution in an appendix or the like so someone can find it if they're like "that quote was funny, where do I find it?".
I think what you're worried about comes more along the lines of integrity (if you were a student, it'd be called academic honesty). It's never a bad idea to cite where you get a quote from, but it's not required under copyright law in most places*.
I have to go somewhere soon, so I won't be giving the explanation that the course I took on copyright law would normally suggest giving, but here's a three-step guide to copyright:
1. A direct copy is always infringement, unless it is fair use.
2. Fair use exists in four conditions:
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
3. Anything else requires explicit licensing.
As far as fair use goes: The amount you can get by with is directly proportional to the nature of the work and your use. If I were to play the opening riff of (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction as part of my YouTube reviews, while I'd be particularly snarky I would likely be violating copyright law (YouTube review play-in song is a potential market, my use is commercial, the work is commercial, and I use pretty much the most iconic part of the song).
Compare this to studying the text in a history class in which we spend a lesson on culture of the 1960's. Barring the fact that basically any presentation I make to the class is noninfringing prior to being fair use (display to a limited group colleagues/coworkers/students is a legal use of owned content), I could definitely play the whole song in class and likely even distribute the text; my use is educational, and not only have I bought a copy** but I may have interested my students in the Rolling Stones, which is an increased market for whoever holds the rights—if they don't let me play it in my classroom I'm not going to go out of my way to get licensing rights, I'll just find another song.
For commercial works, this is a little more grey, but consider the following case:
Video game footage (technically copyrighted) may be used in reviews with no repercussions; in fact, it can even be streamed wholesale with limited commentary for the purpose of entertaining an audience without usually attracting legal action.
So long story short, with the caveat that I'm not a lawyer, though I did take a copyright law class at a law school (it's a long story):
You're good to include a short quote from a text, movie, or other medium for use as a header quote or other such embellishment for a book. You can probably do this as often as you'd like, assuming you're not just making a wholesale quote collection (which may actually still be fair use, but I'd consult an actual lawyer before doing this). While it's not legally required you should probably attribute it either immediately or in an appendix, if even just for an interested reader's sake.
*I'm American, and all the legal copyright stuff I studied was in an American school with an American professor, so I can't vouch much for moral rights or the like, but typically quoting a line or two, even out of context, does not violate moral rights as I understand them.
**If I played pirated music in my class, I'd be infringing copyright (anything you acquire through copyright violation and use in ways that would normally be legal or fair use counts as infringement, though the legal boundaries of this are typically limited to the creation of the copy), but that's not the point of our discussion and goes way more complex than this explanation allows.
Re: Using Quotes from movies and books

Posted:
Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:23 am
by Rob Lang
LOVE the answers here.
In my mind, I'd rather not use quotes from other people's stuff. I used to have them in the Icar rules but removed them. Not because of worries of copyright but because I want to feel like the work is mine. Now there are parts that are donated by others and they are credited but I still feel like it is standing on ideas I have been having for a long time.
If you quote a film or a book, you're really leaning on their ideas. Why not make up a quote said by an NPC? A quote from a film carries the weight of the film and people's experiences watching it. You're sort of riding on their coat-tails.
I feel that if you're creating The Bladerunner RPG then you've not go much choice but then you're really fan-fictioning it and not relying on it to support your own work.
Just my opinions and an utterly incomplete ethical argument!