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Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:00 pm
by Rob Lang
Today I posted my of the superb tome of . Krendel is a large, generic crunchy RPG weighing in at 206 pages for the core rules and another 200 for the Powers book (I didn't review but did mention).

The writing style is clean an advanced (best for adults) and it painstakingly describes everything about running a roleplaying game. Social contract is in there, setting building, GM resources and more. It's only missing an "actual play" script.

But it makes me wonder if people who are new to roleplaying would attack a book that big?

I certainly wouldn't. I think it would be daunting for most. Experienced players can make use of the quick start at the back and then fill in gaps with the excellent index. Do people attack books that big at all? I commented that I had ready War and Peace, Ulysees and am looking forward to and even the most booky of my friends thought I was mad. Do people even read long books now?

I imagine people skin over Icar, do you think a new to roleplaying prospective GM or player pik up Krendel?

Re: Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:58 am
by kylesgames
Off-hand, I'd say that while I like big books (and I cannot lie), most newbies and average players prefer either smaller books or having someone to digest it for them. The proportion of new roleplayers who have the time and interest to go through a whole book is relatively small; people who play a little may find enough motivation to later go through a lot of book, but not everyone will.

One of my plans for Street Rats is to cut down almost everything into a short thirty to sixty page "beginner's guide"; there's plenty of opportunity to do this by simply cutting down things to a handful of weapon tables (and ditching the concept of ammunition types), abbreviated versions of the core rules, and so forth. Sort of like quick-start guides, there'll be a limited number of character creation options (human only, North American only [Societies may not make it in at all], six backgrounds, four Duties, and so forth), and a shortened version of the rules so that the game can be run and played without a lot of inconvenience. A sample adventure will be provided, once I get good with Inkscape again.

EDIT: I'd like to point out that I also have a philosophy that no core rulebook should exceed 400 pages; the number of examples where this works out well are far fewer than examples where it does not, and stems from my time as a reviewer. I will make exceptions for games by large publishers, like FFG, Catalyst Game Labs, and so forth, because of the fact that I expect them to include fluff and full-page art that eats up a large portion of the book, but indie games tend to be more crunch-focused and a long book is synonymous with unnecessary complexity for me.

Re: Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:14 pm
by Chainsaw Aardvark
I would speculate that its the new role-players that need the big books the most. They're the ones who need to learn everything from scratch and have the greatest interest in diving through the lore. Older players have the set check list of what they want (Character Classes or Free form, dice pool vs single, point buy or roll creation, and so forth) and zero in on what they're looking for. Knowledgeable GMs can fudge rules or make calls to keep the game flowing, inexperienced ones need a bit more hand holding for odd situations.

Way back at the turn of the century, the impressive tomes is part of what drew me in. Al the new worlds and places, the possible characters, plentiful examples of how all these things work.

Re: Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:12 pm
by Onix
People in general seem to be less able to take in large volumes. Maybe less interested is a more accurate description, but less able still applies.

If anything, we should be moving away from books and moving toward video with interesting infographics. Come up with the first entertaining video based RPG instruction and you could write hundreds of pages with extra information. The core is the key element to convey via video.

Re: Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:14 pm
by kylesgames

Re: Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:03 pm
by Onix
I've been working on exactly that brand of boring video. I'm trying to come up with a better format. For one, it takes too long. Too slow.

Really good infographics should be able to convey information more quickly than a voice over.

In any event, I hear that people that do podcasts and videos take time to develop their trade. It might be worth it to put out some garbage at first to gain experience.

Re: Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:26 pm
by kylesgames

Re: Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:37 am
by Onix
Well, yes, I don't mean not to do a voice over, but I want to push more of the information load onto the graphics.

Re: Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:18 am
by J.K.Mosher
Personally for me "BIG BOOKS" are for those who have an interest in knowing more of a system or world.
Much like how video games have manuals on how to play RPG's should do the same. The big books come as extra
for those who develop a taste for the world/system and want more options, more information.

D&D did this well (to a point). They would and do release starter or beginner sets. basic system with the core
that you can use to intro someone into the game and run a few games. Now they are set to cap out at like level 3
or 5, and for someone just starting out that works for them, BUT there is the option in addition to these "Starter Sets"
to get the tomes or big books that expand the rules, the exceptions the classes, abilities, equipment and so on and
so forth.

So as I see it (and I like the big books, background and is awesome to read) the simpler straight up how to play
smaller books are there to wet people's interest in the system or world and hopefully spark someone to go for
the bigger books to feed this need for more information.

Now, I do see in this day and age with our society going more to instant access and instant gratification that
"BIG BOOKS" are going to be a harder and harder sell. Hardcore gamers or fans will want them for the extra info
but the more casual player or the "newbie" will not. They'll want to know what to do and how to do it and that's that.

Another example from the video game world . . . many games now come with a very small manual . . . no backstory
or description of enemies . . . just a straight set of health warnings and then a diagram of the default controller
button layout. Anything extra has to be either looked up on line (in wiki's) or found in-game through tutorial levels &
encounters.

Re: Do new-to-roleplaying players have time for a big book?

PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:45 am
by Rob Lang