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Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:28 pm
by kumakami
thanks, thats the major direction I'm thinking of atm, who knowns what will change as I finish this :lol:

Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:27 pm
by Rob Lang
Looks like you've got a great concept here.

[quote=kumakami]No game, setting, or system is so power as to prevent a horrible gaming experience. I can only write the suggestions of how to run the game. Only a game's Death's Hand can prevent the game from being one long depressing fall. Will I make points of hope and strength, yes they will be in the rules. Will they be in peoples' games, up the the one running it.[/quote]

What I really meant was that it is possible to make the system in such a way that the characters can't win - ever. It's cool to leave the tone of the campaign to the GM but the rules should allow the players to survive without the GM modifying the system. The new GM won't know the rules well enough to know what to tweak, so ensure that survival is possible. I read one madness mechanic where once your character started going mad, that was it. You controlled how mad but the game turned into a sanity saving death spiral. A bit like Call of Cthulhu but even more prominent. That would be absolutely fine but it was at odds with the author's desire to make the campaign's epic - which the system would not have supported. All the characters would be dead after 5 sessions.

I think post apoc is perfect for long campaigns. I'm loving our campaign of Dead ...and Back.

Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:59 pm
by kumakami
What I really meant was that it is possible to make the system in such a way that the characters can't win - ever. It's cool to leave the tone of the campaign to the GM but the rules should allow the players to survive without the GM modifying the system. The new GM won't know the rules well enough to know what to tweak, so ensure that survival is possible


I do plan on an extensive recover/matanice section to the rules. So there's that. the true problem is that IRL madness is realy hard to recover from, if at all. PTSD is degerative if untreated and rare is a person who fully recovers....I don't plan on making it that dire, but the way the game is made is that its easer to up keep stats then to recover them.

I do thank you all, as this has been greatly helpful. if there are no more queston at the moment I will be writting the skills section of character creation soon....thank you all

Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:48 pm
by Onix
So I've been really busy and haven't been able to comment on this. It sounds cool so far. IMHO the biggest obstacles you'll face are it not feeling like an accounting game and making the hazards the players face not feel like they're just getting beaten on by the GM.

If spending resources are understandable to the players and they know what to expect they're usually fine with taking off points. For example, if the players view loosing points as an investment they'll handle things themselves. For example, if a player says I'm going to scrounge for truck parts in the city, that costs me 2 food and 5 water. Then that's cool.

Now just as a thought, maybe to make it more interesting for the players, what if they sometimes got to decide what penalty they were going to take as long as they could explain how it was going to cost them that. I could look at my food and water and they're really low, but I want to get that pickup truck up and running so I say that I want to use 2 clothing and 5 calm. I'd explain that in the process of working on the pickup, I tore a hole in my jeans and got really frustrated with the whole situation and I'm not sure the truck will keep running so it costs me calm.

I would like that, it sounds fun and allows the player to make a decision.

Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:11 am
by kumakami
by Onix ยป 03 Sep 2012 15:48

So I've been really busy and haven't been able to comment on this. It sounds cool so far.

glad to have you along, here we go....

IMHO the biggest obstacles you'll face are it not feeling like an accounting game and making the hazards the players face not feel like they're just getting beaten on by the GM.If spending resources are understandable to the players and they know what to expect they're usually fine with taking off points. For example, if the players view loosing points as an investment they'll handle things themselves. For example, if a player says I'm going to scrounge for truck parts in the city, that costs me 2 food and 5 water. Then that's cool.

Now just as a thought, maybe to make it more interesting for the players, what if they sometimes got to decide what penalty they were going to take as long as they could explain how it was going to cost them that. I could look at my food and water and they're really low, but I want to get that pickup truck up and running so I say that I want to use 2 clothing and 5 calm. I'd explain that in the process of working on the pickup, I tore a hole in my jeans and got really frustrated with the whole situation and I'm not sure the truck will keep running so it costs me calm.

I would like that, it sounds fun and allows the player to make a decision.


I find this idea interesting as, I find this style of gaming you bring up to feel MORE like an accounting game. The only one I like was a pay-to-play game, Marvel Universe, in which there was only one pool of points to look after and stat/skill told you the max you could spend and how fast it returned... If I was the shit with 2d art the stats would look like a meter on the char sheet. the player more looks down and goes "oh shit I'm really starving (low current food stat) , if scrounge for truck parts in the city its only going to get worse. If I try to scrounge for food...I won't get the truck done in time to meet up with earl..."

As the rules will explain needs tend to drop at predicable rates unless your pushing your self (working in tropical heat for example) while conditions seem to drop due to failure's the character experiences or the environment goes sour (hard to keep sane with zombies popping up everywhere!!) The Environment stats, however, work a little like what your talking about....but in a more OH SHIT points kind of way.

One of the features to this game, once I get to the rules part, is that ALL Roll start with the same pool of dice, then the player (and Death's Hand) looks at the sheet to see how its modified +/- anything the Death's hand has to add. The difficult is another pool of dice (whether opposed or not) that is again modified by the characters stats +/- anything the Death's hand has to add.....I will, hopefully, be more clear when I get to the rules.

While I see where your coming from in game style, Its not the kind of game I like to play, so its really not the kind of game I'd write. sorry.

Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:14 pm
by kumakami
sorry its taking me so long....skill list is a pain to deal with....

Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:30 pm
by kumakami
ok rather then wait for the skill list to be done, cause I'm still figuring it out, I'm going to just start the skill section now so maybe I will get a better idea.

Apocalypse Tao
Part 1, section 3: character creation, skills part 1


To understand skill be must define some system terms as these will better prepare you for choosing. Skill are the true muscles of the game, helping to tell use just how many dice we need to use.

First of there are two types of skills in AT, general and specialized. These terms have to do with if the skill can be use with out training and how many dice you start with.
*General: these skill are usable untrained, so anyone can do them. Gaining ranks and/or focus (see below) in them show dedication to perfect the normally doable. Since most people can do these things "unskilled" BASIC rank starts at 3 dice.
*specialized: the average person has no idea how to do these skills. They either require long periods of training or require acts most people can't do if not shown. Ranks and focus in theses skills show unique understandings. Since most people could never do these skill they start lower the general, Basic rank gives you 2 dice to roll.

[Next up: ranks and focus and what it means]

Ps: I know this is a short post compared to my last 2, my life has become rather stress full as of late so thinking in through larger posts is harder right now. Hope you can except this, Kumakami

Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:32 pm
by kumakami
what is with life and those god damned curve balls?

Apocalypse Tao
Part 1, section 4: character creation, skills part 2

There are 5 ranks (well 5.5 ranks, see below), each translates to a high level of understanding and potential for more in depth list of trick in your corner.

There are an innumerable count of Focus abilities (including the .5th rank...see below I said!!), Focus (or focus abilities) is the name give to the tricks one learns with in a give skill. A character with basic knowledge (aka rank) but a large bag of tricks (focus) to pull from can be as deadly, if not more, then a character with high knowledge but little in the way of exploiting that knowledge (focus).

RANKS

*Apprentice:The lowest level of skill, this is still a big improvement to being unskilled (HUGE if your talking about specialized skills). It also give the character access to Focus abilities, which you can't have unskilled...with one exception (see advantages/disadvantages)

*Journeymen: At this level of skill a character goes beyond the basics and gains a full knowledge of the skills true depth. At this level most "normal" people stop, as it affords a modest income or is at least a Blackbelt# At this level Focus abilities become more robust, and much more efficient# Finally a character rolls an extra die then apprentice (4 for General, 3 for Specialized)

*Craftsmen:This level some one who Has become established and well versed in their field# A few people reach this level at the tail end of their carriers, just before they retire# Many are mistakenly call a master at this skill, yet they have only just know dipped past the surface of the skill# The focus abilities at this point become very powerful indeed# A character rolls two extra dice past Apprentice and this rank (5 for General, 4 for specialized)

*Mastery: This is where the depth of understanding starts to show in a skill, the land of Genus and wizard like ability# In combat, this is where we see truly awe inspiring marshal arts abilities# Focus abilities for the master's are well know legends, spoken with fear and envy# A character rolls three extra dice past Apprentice and this rank (6 for General, 5 for specialized)

*Grand Mastery: At this rank you aren't learning new things about a skill, your CREATING them# This is a rare level to reach, 1 in a billion# Think Stephen Hawking, Einstein, Beethoven, Sun Tsu, etc# Having a Focus at this level is like owning a stealth Nuke, This are the long lost legends# Fear characters at this level, rolling an extra FOUR dice #7 general, 6 Specialized#

Focus

I will not be giving you a list of these (its bad enough I've trying to write the skill list) it will be in the final (at least for testing) version. The costs are in a range that get longer as you rise in rank. This means some high level focus abilities have the same cost as the ones in lower ranks. This is because there are prerequisites for many focus abilities.

Apprentice Focus abilities start at a range of 1-2 points, each rank adds +2 to the possible costs (Grand Mastery focus abilities are 1-10 points). this cost is in character points and XP.

[Next up: Skill lists, character creation point and costs...maybe the start of rules....oy]

Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:20 pm
by kumakami
no more love for this thread.... :lol:

I'm hoping to get to working on the next part on the weekend....to whom ever is still reading this.

Re: working out a game idea, for all to see

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:08 pm
by Onix
I didn't have a negative or positive reaction to the last rule post, I think I need to see how the rest falls into place to know if I like it or not. Kinda like saying "we're using d8s" okay, that's important to know and it might have everything to do with the game but by itself isn't bad or good to me, so I was just hanging by.