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Glove of holding?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:59 am
by Onix
In the olden days things like warhammers weren't spikey sledgehammers, they were more like a large carpenter's hammer size wise. Battle axes looked more like hatchets than giant double bladed throwing axes. Longswords were pretty rare. The average fighter's hand weapon was on the order of 4 lbs (2 Kg) in weight. The same actually holds true for modern weapons, most assault rifles try to come in under 8 lbs (4 Kg ish) because a soldier usually wields the gun with both hands.

Why? Because that's the normal upper limit for a person's grip strength. Any heavier and it's not the swinging arm that will give out it's the fingers that tire.

With that in mind, I thought this was a really interesting device, . Practically this would be a really useful addition to a soldier's kit. There's one problem with including it in an RPG, most players would gloss over it. "It doesn't do more damage in HTH? What good is it?" When in real life it would allow the average guy to carry a 50 cal BMG rifle (20 lbs) like it was a regular rifle.

I put Wielding Mass in as a rule for The Artifact because of this limit but I doubt anyone other than me and my rules editor would pay attention to that rule.

Can anyone else come up with a way to convey the usefulness of a powered glove without relying on a HTH damage modifier?

Re: Glove of holding?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:19 am
by Chainsaw Aardvark
The problem isn't so much carrying a nine kilogram Browning Automatic Rifle (M1918A2) or a fourteen kilo M82A1 anti-material rifle, its firing .30-06 rounds full automatic or .50 caliber rounds at all, without support. Even then, it isn't so much the gun leaving your grip as keeping the weapon on target due to muzzle climb, recoil, fatigue, flinching and so forth. You would need complete power-armor or a system akin to a steady-cam rig to fire them with any accuracy when not using the bi-pods. (The "Smartguns" in the film Aliens actually are MG-42s on film camera mounts.) Low weight in modern weapons is more about how long you need to carry the thing without shooting it, the need to limit loads so you can carry other stuff and to some extent shipping/manufacturing costs. (Generally less material used equals cheaper and lighter.)

While the "powerglove" wouldn't really work with rifles, it could be a boon with pistols. There is a phenomenon with semi-automatic weapons known as . In short, if the weapon isn't held correctly, the shooter absorbs the recoil force rather than the operating mechanism, so the gun fails to cycle properly. The design and size of the Desert Eagle pistol make it especially prone to this problem - which is part of why it is actually rather unpopular in the real world. (As opposed to in entertainment media, where it seems to be the most common handgun ever.)

An augmented glove could mean more reliable pistols and the ability to use bigger ones with some more ease. Of course, it depends on the setting an purpose. The Desert Eagle weighs four and a half pounds, an MP-5 submachinegun with greater range and potential accuracy along with four times the bullet capacity weighs only one pound more. (And without the mark-ups of title three licensing, doesn't really cost much more either.)

If you just need that hand free, or are in really tight quarters, it could help. Large caliber reduced lethality bullets in a smaller package (baton shotgun rounds/plastic pellets.) would be useful for police. In a futuristic setting a sufficiently large bullet may carry a guidance system, hence a focus on .50 or larger calibers. Depending on capacitor technology, energy pistols would probably be on the heavy side as well.

I suppose there could be a bonus to attempting to parry enemy attacks in close combat, since it is unlikely to come out of your hands. Perhaps it compensates for poor technique somewhat, since you hold it firmly, if not correctly.

As the article says, its more for utility purposed, so perhaps it isn't a bonus in combat, but for other tasks. It would probably help welders keep a steady bead and angle on their MIG/TIG rods or let a surgeon keep that perfect cutting angle on a scalpel for a several hour long surgery. Rock-climbing, rappelling, or fast-roping might see benefits or perhaps it gets around needing the leverage of a wrench in certain mechanic's applications, and thus you don't need a giant toolbox of English and metric.

Re: Glove of holding?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:18 pm
by misterecho
You're bringing back terrible memories of "pokey drill". An army exercise I suffered continuously, designed to increase grip strength and improve weapon handling.

*shudders*

Re: Glove of holding?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:32 am
by Onix

Re: Glove of holding?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:44 pm
by misterecho
Most militarys are moving away from larger cartridges at the infantry squad level. A 5.56mm is favoured over the 7.62mm for example. The reason for this is the portability of ammo and the less reliably fatal nature of smaller rounds. If you're hit with a 7.62mm on any limb you'll lose it and probably die on the battlefield, whereas with 5.56 you are more likely to grievously wound your enemy. Thereby requiring other soldiers or medics to attend him. You start clogging up their resources and jamming the supply lines with wounded.

We reason we use .50 BMG on vehicles is because you can carry lots of ammo and engage effectively over very long ranges. The 50 cal is great against light armour, never mind the Talibans favoured Toyota Hilux.

Re: Glove of holding?

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:22 pm
by misterecho
Would you glove be compatible with:
http://www.ted.com/talks/eythor_bender_ ... etons.html

(posted before)

Re: Glove of holding?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:27 am
by Onix
No reason it wouldn't be.

While the move has been towards 5.56 ammo, (I was lead to believe a major reason was the increase in the number of carryable rounds) The US testing of the XM25 went so well that the soldiers didn't want to give them back. The US military is purchasing one for every platoon in service despite their high price tag. The German military is working on a 40mm weapon that is similar. So I foresee not every soldier using a glove like this but that certain special roles finding it useful.