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ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:32 pm
by viziel
Regarding Armor in ICAR

There needs to be a better definition in the combat section as to what armor is and how it works. Its mentioned in the firefight section but there is no overall section talking about it.

I looked over the ICAR equipment book and was considering making some armor items as a way to pass the time but also to learn the rules and test ideas I have against the ICAR rules.

The equipment book details some very limited pieces and gives some statistics, then in the back there are two pieces of armor that provide a clue as to some high versus low armor values...the TiSi Armored Coat and the Survium Impact Suit.

Considering that these are either medium and light armors I can deduce a AR to Cost ratio and drum up some pieces in the middle and extrapolate some higher end armors that should be within scope of the rules.

Anyway, my question is this...

What is HS???? The book dosn't talk about this! lol...

HS seems to give values for different body locations, so that much I understand but I dont understand what the numbers mean. The armored coat has values of 100, and 400 for torso (0 for head). While the impact suit has significantly higher values of 1000, and 2000 for torso (0 for head)...

Are these some shock value??

Re: ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:10 pm
by viziel
Just discovered this old thread:



Its become apparent to me that the HS values for individual body locations seems to be out-of-place since the combat system treats the body as a whole.

Armor is considered uniform and not piecemeal. Therefore, AR is for the whole body despite individual pieces.

So, if you are buying armored boots, helmet or gloves that exceed the AR of your suit, they most only provide modifiers to your uniform AR.


Thus if you have light armor and your uniform AR is 7, and you buy a big fancy helmet it will only give you a +1 AR so your total uniform AR would be 8.

Pity, I kinda like hit locations but I feel Im in the minority. I like it cuz head shots do 2x damage...if you are a good shot its a great way to take people out. Plus the system in cyberpunk if any limb takes more than 8 pts of damage in a single round of combat its rendered useless or crushed...

Re: ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:23 pm
by randolph
typicly i waffel a bit here useing the "uniform" armor for general attacks and indvidual for called shots. this double standard comes about because i tend to run cinematic games... and by cinematic i mean hollywood! if
Flash Gordon or Buck Rodgers can do it then if you've got the right combo of stats/skills/psychotheatrics then you've at least got a shot!
so you have the underprivilaged (armsbearsrs, henchmen, and the third spear carrier on the left...) and the privilledged
( heros, villians and major suporting charecters...)
and since you have to a minimumm skill leval to call shots in the first place then you'll fall in the privillaged cateogory.

Re: ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:37 am
by Rob Lang
HS sounds like a misprint. It should be Hit Points (HP). Taking damage with armour works the same with body and is per location. There aren't many armour examples in the rules yet but there will be. Perhaps a section on Armour alone is a good idea.

Armour soaks up all the damage and when it runs out (Hit points hit 0), your body hit points starts taking it. Armour rating works the same way. The Blast Factor (BF) must be greater than the Armour Rating (AR) to do full damage. Armour Rating will cover all locations but Hit Points (HP) will still be location based. If you are wearing an armoued vest, for example then you only get protection there.

It's not very well explained, thanks for pointing that out!

Re: ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:25 am
by viziel
Interesting mechanic..so the armor values in the equipment book are actually hit points per location...

And if a hit is greater than the AR, then the armors HPs are reduced?

This is sorta like abalative armor from Car Wars.

Their cars used plastic armor which is abalative. Meaning, the AR has no value, its all Hit Points. So if you take 10 pts...you loose 10pts. When its reduced to 0, the armor is simply gone.

Then they added Metal Armor, this is non-abalative. This sounds like ICAR armor, you have 10 pts of this stuff, and the damage has to MEET or BEAT 10 pts. The AR of 10 is reduced to 9, and the Hit Points gets reduced by whatever collateral damage is left.

The reason behind reducing the AR by 1 point is it simulates the hole in the metal thats left behind by a sufficient hit.

I'm gonna try to post some sample armors to provide some examples based upon what I've read here.

Re: ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:47 am
by Rob Lang
Simplicity is key here. To make combat flow quickly, you need to keep down the number of dice rolls, mathematics and modifications during play. There is already rather a lot of multiplication, and book keeping so I am not keen on changing armour rating. The armour is ablative and you normally get an armoured such as:

Armour Rating (AR): 4
H: 300
LA: 300
RA: 300
T: 500
LL: 200
RL: 200

If you fire 22 rounds at 10 damage each with a BF of 5, the weapon does 220 points of damage. The GM rolls for the hit location, if its a leg then the armour is gone and 20 points goes through to a leg. A human leg has 15 hit points, so 20 is enough to blow it off. Time to find a medic.

Re: ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:55 am
by viziel

Re: ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:13 am
by viziel

Re: ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:29 am
by Rob Lang
All the armour will be redone for 4.0 - more of a range and better numbers. The coat and impact suit are both correct, though. Let me explain...

It's important to remember that whether an armour is heavy or not depends on a combination of AR and HP. You can have a very thin garment that is good at stopping medium calibre (Arms 5 or Arms 6 assault rifles) but shreds with anything large (any Astraripper chain gun). That thin garment has a high AR but low HP. A bulky suit of Expeditionary Armour would be high AR and a high HP.

The impact suit serves the function of ablative armour for when you fall off (get pushed off) your grav bike. The coat is there to stop assault rifles penetrating (BF of 25 in Icar version 3.5 numbers). Eventually, the assault rifle will work its way through (doing 1/10 damage) and at which point the wearer had better have some more protection!

The cost is too high. Don't worry too much about the statistics - they are not version 4 friendly yet.

Re: ICAR v4 Armor

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:45 am
by viziel
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I will share what I have so far, but since I'm basing it off out-of-date material I will put it on hold.

The primary reason for this was an excercise in trying to find the system behind the numbers...by generating more samples in both extremes and stuff in the middle...

Class or Type:
Tactical - The primary function of this armor is for combat use.
Impromptu - This armor is fabricated on-site typically for emergency protection.
Concealable - Armor intended to blend in and be more socially acceptable.

Weights:
Light - AR 1-11, cost is 1000 credits per AR point, Encumbrance: 1
Medium - AR 12-16, cost is 1000 credits per AR point, Encumbrance: 2
Heavy - AR 16-27, cost is 2000 credits per AR point, Encumbrance: 3

Skill Modifiers: 10-30% 1000 to 2000 credits, 30-50% 3000 6000 credits, 50%+ 6000+ credits

Rarity:
HS:

Skills that could be used in armor: Journalism, Law, History, Antiquities, Botanical, Biological, Chemical,
Explosives, Medical Basic, Bionics Knowledge, Diagnosis, Surgery,Bionics Systems, Bionics Design,Bioweave,
Gaia Know, Gaia Systems, Gaia Design, Gaia Research, AI, Auto Know, Auto Systems, Auto Design, Vehicle Know,
Vehicle Systems, Vehicle Design, Spacecraft Know, Spacecraft Systems, Spacecraft Design, Energy Know, Energy Systems,
Energy Design, Weapon Know, Weapon Systems, Weapon Design, Mechasys Know, Mechasys Systems, Mechasys Design,

LIGHT ARMORS
Stalker Suit - Tactical AR 2, 3000 credits, Encumbrance 1, Rarity: 60%
HP (H, LA, T, RA, LL, RL): [0/1000/2000/1000/1000/1000]
The silent suit incorporates groundbreaking sonic dampening technology to create a sort
of bubble of silence around the wearers feet and hands. The stalker suit takes this basic system and adds in even
more recent light warping technologies, making the suit almost impossible to see as well as hear. The suit provides
a +30% to Stealth while in it, when not activated it looks like a rather glittery silver jumpsuit (an
unfortunate side effect of the light warping materials when not activated) with strange devices on its hands, elbows,
knees, and feet, and a small battery on the back to power it. This armor has had the chameleonic surface gadget
added already, therefore it cannot be added again.
Stealth +30%

Extreme Frontiersmens Suit - Impromptu AR 8, 60,000 credits, Encumbrance 1, Rarity: 50%
HP (H, LA, T, RA, LL, RL): [1000/1000/2000/1000/1000/1000]
The Extreme Frontiersmens Suit is made for the hardest of the hardcore hunters. It has multi-environmental
systems for hot and cold, wet and dry, using a variety of micro-systems it will keep you going in whatever your
favorite preys habitat is. Only problem is, it doesn't change color, so you need a suit for each environment, even
if the suit's systems will support it through all of them. The frontiersmens suit allows its wearer to function for days
or even weeks on end without a source of water or rations. The basic premise of the survival suit is that in order
to continue living in harsh environments the human body must conserve and recycle resources. As a result, the
frontiersmens suit, which looks much like a modern-day wetsuit covered with camouflaged pads, is able to control
the intake and waste of the human body in an efficient manner. Water is stored in small pouches all over the
frontiersmens suit and can be drawn through a small tube that protrudes from the collar; the suit recycles sweat
and urine (which it chemically purifies) and then refills those pouches as needed. The outside of the survival suit
bears a number of partially reflective black pads, which absorb solar energy and heat and store that energy in
tiny heat cells throughout the suit. If the temperature begins to drop, these heat cells can release energy and
sustain a comfortable temperature for the human body for up to 8 hours without needing to recharge. If these cells
are empty, the suit also has chemical pouches that can be activated one time for another 8 hours of heat. A tiny
intravenous feeding system provides nourishment when rations and food run out for up to six days. Tiny fans and
vents built into the suit cool the body in temperatures of extreme heat without losing any body moisture.

PT Civil Defender Undercover Vest - AR 5, 3000 credits, Encumbrance 1, Rarity: 30%
HP (H, LA, T, RA, LL, RL): [0/1000/1000/1000/0/0]
The ParaTech Civil Defender is a response to request by detectives and private investigators for a lighter, more
concealable and maneuverable version of the “3 to 1”. And they got exactly what they were looking for, more
protective than an undercover shirt, more comfortable and concealable than a “3 to 1”, the Civil Defender is an
excellent choice for a balance of protection and comfort.

MEDIUM ARMORS
Battle Carapace - AR 14, credits, Encumbrance 2, Rarity: 70%
HP (H, LA, T, RA, LL, RL): [0/0/0/0/0/0]
The TransLife Battle Carapace was a promising armor, manufactured to provide heavier protection that was
capable of supporting TransLifes symbiotic weapon line. Unfortunately most of their potential market decided to
stick with mechanical weapons, ignoring the potential of biotech symbiotic devices. However, the Battle Carapace
can still be found in use by some biotech oriented organizations, and can still be special ordered from TransLife.
The Battle Carapace is much like the skinsuit, but it has simply been grown with a thickened carapace, providing
as good protection as battleweave. The carapace covers the entire body, including the head, and so cannot be
combined with battleweave fatigues for additional protection. The suit functions as a host for symbiotic weapons
just as a Skinsuit does, but only has four feeding slots due to the need to support the added carapace, complete
with green color for enhanced photosynthesis.

“Legionary” Battle System - AR 16, credits, Encumbrance 2, Rarity: 80%
HP (H, LA, T, RA, LL, RL): [0/0/0/0/0/0]
The ParaTech Legionary Battle System is the standard in well funded militarys armor, it is based upon the
ParaTech Full Battle Vest, worn over battleweave fatigues, and then with a high-tech Heads Up Display (HUD)
system added in to make the soldier more effective. In addition to its protective qualities the Legionary Battle
System has the following features: A mini-computer linked to a complex HUD system displayed in various ways on
either a visor or drop down monocle, depending on preference, and both voice activation and additional keypad,
attachable to almost any surface for easy access. A Nanobeacon that tracks a soldiers movements and displays
them on the HUD as well as a command centers computers. An integrated motion sensor, placed in the helmet, it's
also linked with the HUD. HUD Software: Sensor Link, Targeting, Ammunition Tracker

HEAVY ARMORS
“Praetorian” Assault System - AR 20, credits, Encumbrance 3, Rarity: 80%
HP (H, LA, T, RA, LL, RL): [0/0/0/0/0/0]
Though largely obsolete compared to modern power armor, ParaTech still manufactures the Praetorian in small
quantities, though only with all bells and whistles of a “battle system”package. The Praetorian takes the small
ceramic tiles of the battle vest and doubles their size, it also expands the vest to cover the neck, groin, and upper
arms, the battleweave fatigues are also supplemented with additional battleweave and neovulcanium cable weave
pads on the legs and lower arms. Add into this the array of HUD features and you get a straight forward but
effective killing machine. In addition to its protective qualities the Praetorian Assault System has the following
features: A mini-computer linked to a complex HUD system displayed in various ways on either a visor or drop
down monocle, depending on preference, and both voice activation and additional keypad, attachable to almost
any surface for easy access. A Nanobeacon that tracks a soldiers movements and displays them on the HUD as
well as a command centers computers. An integrated motion sensor, placed in the helmet, it's also linked with the
HUD. HUD Software: Sensor Link, Targeting, Ammunition Tracker It is also environmentally sealed, allowing it to
operate in the deep sea or deep space without modification.

“Immortal” Heavy Assault System - AR 27, credits, Encumbrance 4, Rarity: 90%
HP (H, LA, T, RA, LL, RL): [0/0/0/0/0/0]
The Immortal Heavy Assault System is a rare find nowadays, a relic of past ages, before powered armor, before
plasma weapons even. However, its just as effective as it ever was, even if it doesn't include battleweave, at this
level of armor, battleweave hardly matters, its all in the ceramics, and its HUD systems are still as effective as
ever. In addition to its protective qualities the Immortal Heavy Assault System has the following features: A minicomputer linked to a complex HUD system displayed in various ways on either a visor or drop down monocle,
depending on preference, and both voice activation and additional keypad, attachable to almost any surface
for easy access. A Nanobeacon that tracks a soldiers movements and displays them on the HUD as well as a
command centers computers. An integrated motion sensor, placed in the helmet, it's also linked with the HUD.
HUD Software: Sensor Link, Targeting It is also environmentally sealed, allowing it to operate in the deep sea or
deep space without modification.