Is it better to reveal or not reveal?

[Onix]

I think Rob and I are in the same situation. We have settings that are complete but are only partially revealed. On the one hand it creates a bit of mystery but it also limits what the GM can do with a game and not feel like they were overridden later in the story. It also makes material that is revealed later potentially useless to the GM if they took the world in a different direction.

So my question is, is it better for a GM to have all the background revealed, or is it better for the mystery (and simpler assimilation) to limit the story and just hint at the larger background?

I want to eventually get to my larger background by making a second game in the series but it's a slow process. So my questions are. . .
Are you happier as a GM knowing less or knowing more?
Is it harder to pick up a setting that is very deep even if you don't need to know what's going on in the background?
Is it worth holding back information so the players don't know and have to speculate?
What is the best method of getting information to a GM and not players? (GM section?)

[J.K.Mosher]

Overall the more info a GM has the better he/she can integrate his/her ideas into a game setting,
but with that said, it's still a catch 22, because the more info the GM has, the less likely he/she will
have the energy to create something additional.

But on to the questions:

1) As a GM I like to know more, especially how different groups, cities, races, and organizations
interact, with backgrounds a histories to help flesh out the details.
2) A deep setting is easier to work with it it leaves multiple, loose ends, or what if's for GM's and
players to use a adventure points/hooks.
3) It is always better to have players guessing . . . GM source books, or sections are awesome
for anyone running a game, and those few of us, who just like to know more.

As long as the additional background/story improves the setting without introducing mechanics that over ride
earlier rules I feel you'll be fine with releasing further sources "books". My biggest pet-peeve is when a source book
is released to give more background, and a large section of it is "New Rules" that make earlier sources obsolete.

Let's face it . . . if the game is solid/fun . . . it's the GM's choice if he/she wants to include this extra/deeper information, in his/her games.

[Thought]

I'd propose that you're conflating "setting" with "story." While I suppose a setting can have a spoiler (an 1850ish explorer game's setting would be spoiled if the source of the Nile were revealed), that can be easily avoided by just limiting setting information to what the character's would reasonably know. If you want to have a story associated with it, release those as separate modules.

I don't know enough about Icar to speak intelligibly about it, but I'll use that as an example regardless. It's all space-y and sci-fi-y (or SyFy-y). Space travel, then, would be part of the setting. The setting might reveal something odd about space, say, a mysterious planet that eats all radio waves directed at it. Nothing much, just a plot hook. In the Module "Dr. Captain Blast Langagon and the Planet of Potential Doom" it is revealed that the planet is really an ancient construct that transmits the radio waves to someplace outside the universe (dun dun duuuuun). Then, in the sequel module, "Dr. Captain Blast Langagon and the Armies of Fornevers," the PCs get transported to that someplace and find their evil Fornever-verse doubles! But, the GM and the players are entirely free to play module 1 and then not play Module 2 because it conflicts with their story. Or, they are free to not play either. And when a totally separate module pack, Onix Odgers in the Fifty First and a Half Century, is released, they could play that one without having played either of the other two.

That said, if you want to see how a for-profit game handled your dilemma, then I'd recommend Whitewolf's Adventure!/Aberrant/Aeon(also called Trinity).

[Onix]

[Rob Lang]

Great topic - made me think a lot. I'm not used to it and not sure I like it.

Emmett (Onix) and I are in a very similar situation (hulking great Sci Fi monoliths). I am limiting GM knowledge because I have over 280 unpublished pages of setting info for Icar that I'm not putting in the core book. My unpublished Streetpunk setting, for example, is MUCH larger than the core book. I can't put it all into the core book because that would make it just too large to digest. For the core setting, write the bare minimum to get your point across. In short, there are loads of little story/plot hooks that the GM can't know because the book would be MASSIVE.

Modules breaking the core setting
As for modules breaking the setting (@Thought: you've tempted me to write a module like that[/b]) then I think that a module should be fun and it if breaks some aspect of the core setting then so be it. I wouldn't get too hung up on the modules mashing the core setting a little (perhaps not too much) because in campaign play the playing group (GM and players) would have mashed stuff anyway. Modules will bump into each other if the campaigns are contigous.

Any module will need some tweaking before it fits into their version of the campaign world. I heard of one Icar campaign where the premise was that the Imperium (which is a benevolent linchpin) collapsed. Most of my modules for Icar would be mostly useless given that!

How do I know what to include? - A proposal
Core stuff is normally easy to identify (description of the Artefact, for you Emmett; for me description of Human Occupied Space). For each additional piece ask yourself:

"Is this necessary to get the feel for the game?"

If No, leave it for a module.

If yes, ask:

"Can I describe it in less than 2 pages?"

If No, leave it for a module.

If yes, ask:

"Can I pad it out to make it large enough to hang a fun module on?"

If Yes, leave it for a module.

If No, put it in.

Example!
I have a news corporation called the Gaian News Network. It's like the BBC.

"Is this necessary to get the feel for the game?"
Yes. Gaian is the GM tool for telling the players about stuff.

"Can I describe it in less than 2 pages?"
Yes. In about a page, more than the other corporations in its section but still not large.

"Can I pad it out to make it large enough to hang a fun module on?"
Not that it would be fun to play. Reporters would be fun to play but they would need to be engrossed in a setting that is more interesting than just working for a news network, which would be a bit grindy. The setting might be "Corporate Assassinations" and then the reporter a character class (Skeleton in Icar lingo).

[Onix]

Ok so here's another question then. Is it better to summarize the main ideas that you haven't covered, even if it may not be strictly needed, so a GM can use the general concepts in the summary?

For example in Icar, there's a lot about the Bots and how they're dangerous but not actively fighting humanity at the moment. Would it be better to explain briefly what they're really up to so that when I GM and make a story about what the Bots are really doing right now I don't go off on an entirely different direction and then have a later work contradict what my players did?

I'm fine with that being in a GM's resource book, I don't think the spoilers have to be in the core book. But how much should the GM be brought into the inner sanctum of the game? On the one hand it might remove the mystery for the GM but then, don't they need to know?

[Rob Lang]

[Chainsaw Aardvark]

Building on Thought's earlier comment - let us propose that there are only two types of RPGs - Story Based and Setting Based.

Story Based games are ones like Vampire, Heavy Gear, Battletech, most licensed settings, or Legend of the Five Rings - time actually moves, and there is a running meta-plot. Setting based games like Paranoia, Warhammer 40K, Dungeons and Dragons - lay out a world to explore, but don't really advance outside what the characters do.

Setting Based games can benefit from gaps in the information - it gives the GM places to insert their own material and to move the narrative he gives to the world a direction. I'm probably not going to disclose which city-states in D&B come out on top, or actually give stats for a type IV or Delta reanimate specifically so the game can progress with the themes the players want to explore, rather than being stuck in a certain line.

Those based on a story should probably be more up-front. The players should at least be able to see the basis of a big change in the setting or know why it is coming. Furthermore, the author should be willing to commit to the new story, and not be pulling any big surprises. Palladium Book's Coalition Wars series that shook up the Rifts settings had a lot of detractors from all sides for how poorly it was handled, things pulled from nowhere, failure to understand how the armies of the various powers worked, and really poor portrayals of the major characters.

In short - if you're writing a story, give details so plot twists make sense. If you're creating a setting, leave some loose ends so the GM can create some twists.

What makes games fun is the constraints they place on the players and the interesting choices this leads to. A FPS with god mode and unlimited ammo on isn't quite as interesting as playing it normally for example. So the big things to include are what has a far reaching impact on the setting, and what constrains the players. If there is nanotech involved, clarify if its just for making super-batteries in a lab, or if there are creation engines that will spit out a car if you give it enough scrap metal. Does gene splicing produce new servitor creatures of high intelligence, or simply give more hardy tomatoes and limit the incidence of certain syndromes?

Even if you aren't specific about the workings of the governments or all the equipment involved, if two nations are at war or soon will be - then introduce them in the core rules. No one knows your setting like you do, so be sure to include points of interest.

[Onix]

[Rubbermancer]

I'm soaking all this in as well, it's a big help. I've got a ton of setting and story info on the game I'm working on, and I'm having trouble organizing it. This has given me a clearer idea of how to break things down. Thanks!