Opinion on mechanic (and some research questions)

[StixRemix]

[Sanglorian]

I hope this doesn't come across as too critical, but I feel you're focusing on an interesting - and even elegant - mechanic rather than the stories you want to tell.

Will you be better able to tell superhero stories with this mechanic? Does it better capture the comics you enjoy reading?

If not, I'd scrap it.

(That said, there is joy in mechanics for mechanics sake. It's just not joy for me.)

To answer your second question about other superhero games, try http://yearoflivingfree.info/superhero

[vulpinoid]

I vaguely remember a mechanism from the past that was similar.

A character was a combination of race and class.

The race gave a spread of points across the attributes, the class did likewise. You then totalled the points from race and class to define the amount of points needed to increase an attribute (there might have been multipliers involved when buying a second, third, forth level, etc.). Low scores were good because they reduced the amount of xp you need to boost your character in a certain area.

For example (I'll cull this down for simplicity):
A human has 2 across the board for a good baseline, a fighter is focused on hitting things.

Strength (2 from race, 1 from class, total 3 pts to advance)
Dexterity (2 from race, 1 from class, total 3 pts to advance)
Intelligence (2 from race, 3 from class, total 5 pts to advance)
Charisma (2 from race, 3 from class, total 5 pts to advance)

A dwarf is strong and smart, a mage is focused on mystic stuff.

Strength (1 from race, 3 from class, total 4 pts to advance)
Dexterity (3 from race, 3 from class, total 6 pts to advance)
Intelligence (1 from race, 1 from class, total 2 pts to advance)
Charisma (3 from race, 1 from class, total 4 pts to advance)

As I'm writing this down, I think it was actually used as the progression system in a computer RPG. You fought creatures, accomplished quests, gained treasure and XP. Then you could spend your XP to boost an attribute. Any skills became available once your attributes reached certain levels, you bought them in a similar way with multipliers based on the attributes they were linked to.

I can't remember the game...hell it might have even been one of the hundreds of throwaway game ideas I've written up myself over my many years of game design.

[SheikhJahbooty]

Rolemaster is of course the big obvious example of a RPG that uses class to determine how many points it costs to advance a particular ability.

To defend you a bit against Sanglorian, I think I see where this mechanic could go. In super hero comics, certain villains were simply good at fighting certain heroes, and vice versa. For example, if Joker knew he was going up against Superman, Superman wouldn't stand a chance. By the time Superman was in a position to figure out what Joker was trying to do, he would have played into the Joker's hands and accidentally killed hundreds of people. So the stats could represent that kind of Justice League level teamwork.

You have your obsessed heroes, who are good at fighting stand up villains.
You have your stand up heroes who are good at fighting tough villains.
You have your tough heroes who are good at fighting smart villains.
You have your smart heroes who are good at fighting obsessed villains.

or something like that.

This would ask us as players to focus on who the characters are and how they get stuff done, rather than on what sorts of kewl powers they have. For example, Plasticman is tough, whereas Elongated Man is smart, even though they both have very similar powers.

That's just my theory. Stix may have an entirely different idea on why he wants to use such a mechanic. For all I know, he could be focusing on the kewl powers. Speedsters beat bricks, bricks beat energy projectors, energy projectors beat gadgeteers, gadgeteers beat speedsters.

Answers.

1) I don't think I've ever seen a game that focused on something so simple, the four chained stats.
2) As I hope I've shown, it has potential, but I think it would need more to it before it really caught my imagination.
3) Advancement seems a bit slow at first. I think I'd want to start at level 3 or something, based on what you described. If it takes all my starting points to advance my weak stat by one point, then all level one characters will look very similar (2 in strong stat, and 1 in secondary stat, or all four in strong stat), so I wouldn't feel like my character is worth anything (different from any other character) until he's level 3 or something like that.

[StixRemix]

I guess it'd be better if I share a bit more about how I'll be having the stats relate to one another, since that places the mechanic a bit further into the setting. Will it ultimately better the storytelling by this mechanic? I can't 100% say, though I certainly think it builds into and off of it.

The four stats should be viewed more like a spectrum from the physically-powered to the intellectually-minded/energy-powered. In the case of my rpg, the progression is Strength - Speed - Wits (skills) - Energy. This is why the cost to raise attributes increases the further one moves from their base stat. For example, strength based characters will have a harder time increasing their energy stat than energy based heroes (and vice versa). Ideally, this is a method to better express the differences between types of heroes like the Hulk vs Professor X.

When Strength is increased by 2, the character gets a +1 bonus to physical attacks.
When Strength is increased by 4, the character gets +5 hit points.
When Speed is increased by 2, the character gets a +1 bonus to defense.
When Speed is increased by 4, the character gets +1 to movement.
When Wits is increased by 2, the character gets a +1 bonus to trained skills.
When Wits is increased by 4, the character gets a +1 bonus to untrained skills.
When Energy is increased by 2, the character gets a +1 bonus to energy attacks.
When Energy is increased by 4, the character gets an additional power (special attack ability, often energy-based).


I was looking to create a balanced system that would not favor any particular character over other characters, so that's why I decided to split the advantages by particular combat styles (and placed them on opposite ends of the spectrum). In this manner, the archetypes seek to be less disadvantageous and more beneficial for player's to invest points in. (For example, a strength hero will gain more from spending his points in strength than he will in spending points in energy, due to the point cost be physical. Likewise, a strength hero will be less disadvantaged for not putting points into energy because of its limited benefits to the archetype.) The two middle archetypes have a slight advantage (given neither has a stat that costs 4 points to raise by one), but they also have the disadvantage of not having an immediate bonus to attacks from their main stat.

Ultimately, I tried to find a balance that wouldn't discourage investing in multiple stats, but one that helped focus/center a character's abilities. If a player with a strength hero wants to increase his energy stat often, he/she should probably considering developing a speed or wits hero (or redesign and create an energy hero).


[edit: For right now, every character gains 4 points per level as well as 10 hit points (so characters have some progression of hardiness). Each character starts the game with 2 powers, and automatically learns a new one at levels 3, 6, 9, 11, 13, and 15 (max level is 15), excluding bonus powers characters gain from increasing their energy stat. Powers are basically special moves, that come from one of five sources (elemental, energy, force, psychic, and physical), as well as powers special to each of the four attribute. Upon creation, a player picks a power source for each hero from the previous five, and this allows their character to select powers from their power source or attribute source.]

[Sanglorian]

Good! I think you've justified the mechanic based on the story you want to tell.

I'd probably draw out this fundamental divide between the physical realm and the energy realm - could you emphasise that in the setting to reflect the divide in the mechanics? Maybe the Plane of Magic is spilling into Earth, or there's a philosophical divide between those who want to achieve excellence within their own realm versus seizing dangerous and unpredictable sorcery.

[StixRemix]

[Sanglorian]

[StixRemix]

[koipond]