Deck Based RPG

[kylesgames]

I'd like to see advancement as hand size and allowing selection of cards from certain categories. I'd like to see standardized cards.

So, for instance, if you were a level 5 wizard, you could use level 5 wizard cards, and if your total level was 10 you could use maybe 8 cards (5 standard + 1/3 levels?). High level characters may be allowed to create multiple draw decks?

This could allow for fun both for a manufacturer but also for players; I can see using something like Roll20 as a playing method for "free" games, and digital deck emulation software shouldn't be difficult to find. If you don't have art-intensive cards and you just have rules, you could even print out a deck cheaply. You could even write by hand, and if you're not a stickler for competition-grade anti-cheating you could just do it on torn up paper.

EDIT: I'd address Decksible more closely, but I really don't understand it.

[Onix]

I do like the idea that a loss of cards is used to represent damage or stun level. I'm not really into their mechanism for how you take damage.

So one problem I have with a deck based game would be, if I have my cards on the table, and all of a sudden I need my Particle Physics card to resolve a task, why in the world would I not be able to go into my deck and pull it out? My thought is that you can pull any card from your deck that you want, but that collapses a lot of deck building strategy. Namely that you don't want a huge deck because you can't know what cards you are going to pull. A small deck makes it more likely that you'll pull the key cards you want.

Maybe I'm just thinking about that wrong, maybe traditional deck building strategy isn't the way to go here. Maybe the real strategy is in what your five active cards are. What about if you have your five main slots. You can build on those cards to make them more effective, but if you need to swap out one of your main cards, it collapses anything you built on it.

But what is that simulating? Why does that happen? I kind of think it's justified by saying you can only do so many things at once, that taking on a new task means not being prepared for another.

Then again, maybe there's a simple metaphor here. Five slots equal 2 hands, one body, one head and legs. Head can mean ideas. Hands are skills you're using or equipment. Body is either cloths, armor or certain health conditions. Legs are protections like boots or actions like running.

Swapping out one of these main cards means doing something different with that body part. Adding cards to these main cards means trying harder. Maybe you can only make one or two moves per turn (moves meaning swapping cards). Adding cards to your existing moves makes you more effective, swapping out a main card means temporarily losing all the cards you've built up.

[Anastylos]

I like the idea of gaining a "slew a dragon" card after killing a dragon. Maybe every player can have a certain number of history cards to influence the adventure e. g. someone plays the slew a dragon card to speak to the king, since heroes have special privileges. By choosing certain history cards you can emphasize a special part of the history. Someone who is fond of battles might choose the "hunted by orcs" card to create a battle against some orcs.
So these cards serve two purposes: to integrate the past adventures in the current one and to give the players a certain controll of the story.

I agree that cards with clear mechanics are better. It should feel a bit like playing a trading card game (only to a certain degree).

The question is what do we want as game mechanics?

[Onix]

As far as mechanics, I think I'd like to go with the cards being stat tracking and rules information. I think that rolling dice is still something I'd like to see.

What about rolling a die for each card you have on a slot? Instead of adding the dice together though, you take the highest. That makes a huge string of cards not break the system, it just makes it mostly likely you'll roll the top number on your die.

To spice things up though, what if you get multiples of a roll and each one adds to the total of the roll. So if I'm rolling d6s and get 3 6s it's 6+2=8. If I roll d6s and get 5 3s, you get 3+4=7.

Now some cards may allow you to roll a d8, or maybe a d10. Some cards might allow you to bump up all your dice a step when taking certain actions. Something like a Rage card (that would be equipped to your head).

What do you think? I was then thinking of Yatsee like full house and flush rules but I'd rather leave it simple (unless you have a card that enables special conditions for full house and flush).

[Anastylos]

Maybe each card has a requirement to play, depending on how powerfull the card is. A "Sword" might require a 5 a "powerfull magic sword" needs two 6 and a "strong shield" a pair of any kind.
Maybe this works even better with a pocker deck and you have to bluff to win from time to time. But having two different cardsets seems a bit to compliceted. Maybe each card has a value and a cost and to play one card you need to pay it with other cards. In the call of cthulhu cardgame you can put a card on the field as a resouce. If you use a resource you gain a value equal to the number of cards, some even add a bit more e. g. if you have played four cards on that resurce you can play a card with a cost of up to four.

[Onix]

I like the idea of requirements for putting down cards but I'm not sure if the number of cards idea works for me. Say for example I have "mythical sword" 1d10. That's a powerful card, but it doesn't make sense to require 4 (or 2) cards before it. It should be useable right away, because why the heck can't I draw my sword before I've somehow prepared for it?

Now I would say "Capo Ferro" requires that a sword be in play. The other thing is that Capo Ferro may give an extra die, but it could say that no dice can be over a d6 in defense rolls. But I digress

Now maybe, if a character has 2 deck draws per turn (again, these aren't random, you get to look for the card you want, because if I need my "warp mechanics" skill, I shouldn't have to try drawing it randomly) A large or powerful item may take 2 draws. Maybe in extreme cases, a card may take 3 or 4. In that case, the character would have to equip a card that gives them extra draws per turn. (Quickdraw holster? allows you an extra draw if that draw is a pistol)

Of course cards have to be placed on the slot they're designed for. A pistol can't be equipped to your head or legs. It has to be equipped to a hand. Lock pick as a skill requires two hands though, and what about piloting a car or airplane? It would have to occupy both hands and the legs. There's a card number limit for you.

So some of these cards are going to have interesting rules on them and there are common sense ways of making some cards "cost" more to play without reverting to standard card game tropes. I'm fine with card game tropes because it breeds familiarity, but I don't want the game format to get in the way of play and story.

The major strategy is to force a character to collapse their chain of cards so that they have to start over. Basically catch them off guard before they can build a strategy.

Now maybe a player gets two draws from the deck that they can search for. Or maybe they get one draw they can search through the deck (and then another player shuffles it) or two random draws? I'd go for that.

[J.K.Mosher]

Lot's of interesting ideas.

Just some thoughts, what do you want the cards to be. In many RPG's they are used as randomizers, which from the way this discussion is moving does not seem to be the main aim of this project. It appears more that cards will be focused on representing items and actions.

So if this is the case then a decision should be made on two main items. Deck-size and hand-size. Now from the discussion I'm getting the impression that it would be preferred to allow players to search their decks for specific cards, in such a case I would suggest smaller deck sizes. Many CCGs use a deck size of about 52 to 60 cards, now considering they use random draw and about 40% of the deck is suggested to be comprised of "resource" type cards this leaves about 31 to 36 cards as actual usable items such as spells, interrupts, artifacts, monsters, and so on.

My suggestion would be to allow characters to create decks with a limit of about 30 cards.

Next thought, hand size. Will players be holding cards in their hand to be played, or just play straight from the deck? If playing from the deck then hand size need not be considered. If you are going to allow players to hold cards then some thought need to be made on how many cards can a player hold at one time. Again most CCGs limit hand size from 5 to 7 cards at any one time.

Both Deck size and hand size bring up a need to answer question . . . are cards discarded, or just recycled? If cards are discarded, then hand and deck sizes should be larger as multiples of specific cards will be needed for players to make the "character/deck" they wish to play. If cards are recycled then deck size is not really and issue as the cards will continually be going back to "re-stock" the deck as play progresses.

My suggestions just from what I've read would be to have a deck size of about 30 cards per player, allowing players to hold 5 cards in their hand at anytime. Use random draw to restock the player's hand after each action, but allow players to "discard" two cards from their hand to search their deck for a specific card. "Discarded" cards would be reshuffled back into the player's deck at the end of each turn.

Card types, again from what I was reading I would suggest the following (Any descriptions or possible actions I'm using are just for illustration purposes.) :

-- Spells : Playable cards that cause damaging/healing/buffing/banning effects if the PC has the spell caster attribute
(Flashy Flaming Firey Burny Ball - Cause 6 Damage to targeted foes; Spell Caster Attribute; Return to Hand next turn. When returned to hand can not be played for 1 turn.)

-- Actions: Playable cards that can be used to improve a PCs odds of success depending on character attributes; such as "Shield Wall" (Block a source of damage to a friendly character - Warrior Class w/ Shield Training Attribute)

- Attributes/Skills - Set cards that are laid before the player giving an idea of the innate abilities of the PC.
(Lock Picking Skill - Return all weapons/items to Player's hand; roll 2d6; add together. If total <7 lock has been picked. If 6< Picking attempt failed, wait 1 turn to try again, if 11 12 Pick has broken, lock is jammed no more picking attempts can be made.)

-- Artifacts - Items of power (Mythical Sword) Laid in appropriate item locations (ie hands/arms) giving continual bonus and possible extra actions (Mythical Sword - Increase weapon damage by 1 while in play. Return to hand to have Mythical Sword defeat 1 enemy while the character attacks a different enemy)

-- Items - Generic Items of use (Iron Kite Shield), That can give limited bonuses or actions just for being played in the proper body slot. (Iron Kite Shield (Armor)- Hand Slot & Shield Training Attribute; Increase defense roll by 1 while in play)

A final thought if using cards to indicate skills and such a way to indicate which skill/attribute is being used should be decided upon. many CCGs use "tapping" or turning the card sideways to indicate that it is/has been activated/used. Depending on how many abilities/items you feel a character should be able to use at one time I would suggest the possibility of a movable marker; like a poker chip (or two if multiple abilities can be used at once) this would allow everyone playing to visually see what ability/item a character is activating but also allow easy of moving activation from one ability to another. (Just pick up the chip and place it on the chosen card on the PC's turn.

-- Side Note: Each Player should have their own markers; this could also allow players to assist each other by placing their active token on another player's item to give a bonus to it's effectiveness (JK is using the "Onix's Artifact RPG" to knock down the castle gate so Rob moves his active token to the "Onix Artifact" card to assist JK in this attack.)

Anyway just some thoughts.

[Onix]

[Anastylos]

I think there should be three types of cards:

one time use: Is played once and then shuffeld back into the deck (or graveyard).
Fireball: deal 4 damage, shuffle it in your libary
sudden insight: draw two cards

on demand: is played on the field and can be used whenever it is needed, afterwards it is discarded
spellbook: return a spell you used to your hand, discard spellbook
defensive stance: ignore one sourge of damage, discard

permanent: is played on the field and can be used every turn, is not discarded.
Chainmail: ignore 1 point of damage
Wand of illusion: discard a card to return a illusion spell to your hand

Maybe every player has five actions per turn and can use them to:
draw a card (serching the deck costs two actions)
play a card (powerfull cards cost more actions)
use a card on the field (cost depends on the effect)

Some card might not need actions to be played but you have to sacifice cards on the fields or you have to discard cards from your hand.

A Hand of five and a deck of thirty cards is best I think. More cards would become confusing.

[Onix]

That sounds pretty solid. I'd quibble with a hard limit of 30, but agree that it's a good soft limit.

Now that you mention a graveyard, it would be a good idea to have one. Grenades don't show back up in my pack after using them.

I was thinking about a character adding to their deck. It could be incorporated into play by having a treasure phase (say, after defeating a monster or coming to the end of a scene). It is at that point that the player can take a new card and add it to their deck. Something similar goes for a training phase, where you can add new skills to your deck.