Gangland
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Gangland
by Chainsaw Aardvark » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:42 pm
After a few delays, I've finally gotten my game Gangland and its Addendum posted. As I said in the games description, any and all feedback is welcome.
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Chainsaw Aardvark - Mod Ape
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by Chainsaw Aardvark » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:08 pm
Its small things really. Mostly, its new copyright information, correcting my contact info, and adding two new guns (a 9mm and a hunting rifle). I also removed the call for d6s - they were not used (as explained in the addendum) and changed the headings to be left justified to avoid too much widowed space.
Thanks for telling me you found the orginal. How long ago did you find it, and did you ever use it?
Thanks for telling me you found the orginal. How long ago did you find it, and did you ever use it?
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Chainsaw Aardvark - Mod Ape
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by ErrinF » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:09 am
I believe I got it a year ago from 1km1kt. I initially read it after downloading it, but haven't played it. It's not quite the genre I like to play, but it's a good read and it has a tight, thorough game system in a short amount of pages. Would be nice if it had artwork, but the layout is clever enough to make up for the lack of art. All in all, you did a very good job of game design. I still need to get around to downloading the new version.
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by Chainsaw Aardvark » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:31 am
I know other people have this thing called "a life" but lets see if I can incite a bit more comments with some pointed questions.
First of all - what do you think of the layout and design? Does the 1/3 - 2/3 layout work, or would a more standard arrangement work?
Do segments stand out appropriately? Can you find the optional rules? Are the examples helpful?
What kind of game would you run? Heroic? Gritty? What kind of setting material should be added? I've got stuff for supernatural, martial arts, armored vehicles and setting in the far future, but I'm not going to develop the settings if they won't get used.
Well, at the very least, I hope you were inspired and had fun.
First of all - what do you think of the layout and design? Does the 1/3 - 2/3 layout work, or would a more standard arrangement work?
Do segments stand out appropriately? Can you find the optional rules? Are the examples helpful?
What kind of game would you run? Heroic? Gritty? What kind of setting material should be added? I've got stuff for supernatural, martial arts, armored vehicles and setting in the far future, but I'm not going to develop the settings if they won't get used.
Well, at the very least, I hope you were inspired and had fun.
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Chainsaw Aardvark - Mod Ape
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:04 pm
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by Chainsaw Aardvark » Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:09 am
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Chainsaw Aardvark - Mod Ape
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by jeffmoore » Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:19 pm
Hi, Jason.
Jeff Moore here, fellow "amateur" RPG designer. I thought I'd drop by and share my thoughts about Gangland. As an exercise in layout, Gangland is top notch. This is why the game was originally created and the layout of the game is a plus. It is easy to read and follow, and it looks good. I love the use of side bars. The instances of flavor text are a joy to read and really make this little 10 page game seem a greater whole than its limited size might allow. The game feels complete.
Conceptually, the game is fine too. I don't need a setting for something like this. I am with you here... less is more. I could see using this for modern and futuristic game play. The cleanness of the game design makes adding skills and adapting settings a snap.
One of the things I always think about when I try to design a game is balancing power. Most of the power level issues in Gangland would seem to stem from the availability of both weapons and ammo which a good GM can keep well in check especially given the premise of the game. So in this system and premise work well together. The material in the Gangland additions I think helps to fill this out (especially the premise part) and a consolidated document would be welcome.
Also, have you had problems with Min/Max players starting with a 50 in hand guns and a 50 in speed and giving themselves 100% to hit? Do the modifiers off-set this enough? Have you considered limiting starting values a bit to encourage more balanced characters?
The arbitrary skill categories are useless to me. Drive Skills, Firearms Skills, Places, Moving, People, Things ... these categories don't serve any purpose. I think it would be better to place the skills you have under their relevant attributes: Smarts, Muscle, Speed, and Savior Fair then it would be easy to see which to values to add together to make a roll.
About the name "Savior Fair" for the "Charisma" trait... why? This stuck out to me as weird because it just didn't seem to fit the "Gangland" theme... why not a word more in keeping with the criminal lingo / premise ... maybe "Moxie" or "Guts" or "Cool" or "Sheen" or "It" or simply "Charm" or "Style?" I don't know... it's nit-picky... but "Savior Fair" just didn't match the premise for me.
The initiative mechanic seems a bit wonky... subtract d% from Speed... high goes first... just seems too cumbersome to me... a player with a 42 Speed who rolls a 93 has an initiative of -51 ... negative numbers can be a pain. Why not just make Initiative d% + Speed and high goes first. It's the same thing, but addition is easier and no negative numbers to mess with.
You talk about Health and Healing but not about Unconsciousness and Death. Is a character dead at zero wounds or only unconscious? Things like that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw Aardvark
First of all - what do you think of the layout and design? Does the 1/3 - 2/3 layout work, or would a more standard arrangement work?
Do NOT change the 1/3 - 2/3 layout. It is perfect. It is easy to navigate through and makes the most of these 10 pages of text. Don't change it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw Aardvark
Do segments stand out appropriately? Can you find the optional rules? Are the examples helpful?
No problems finding what I needed. The skill use example is fine but... the most important is the example of combat that jumps inexplicably to page 8... Why? I think the combat example should come sooner. Also the combat example seems incomplete... we didn't even go through the full round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw Aardvark
What kind of game would you run? Heroic? Gritty? What kind of setting material should be added? I've got stuff for supernatural, martial arts, armored vehicles and setting in the far future, but I'm not going to develop the settings if they won't get used.
As I was reading this I was thinking the "Top Secret" James Bond kinda thing and also near future or "Firefly." The settings stuff isn't vital to me with a system as clean as this. And you never know what people will use... if it were me... and I had the time, I'd do two or three pages on each setting and include them all in the rules as you work to flesh this product out.
These are just my initial thoughts and suggestions. I like Gangland. It is as clean and easy as they come. It's the kind of system that will not get in the way of game play allowing things to stay fast and loose. The layout / design is superb and the flavor text wonderful. It's great work Jason, really it is... and only in 10 pages... to me that's a bonus.
Jeff Moore here, fellow "amateur" RPG designer. I thought I'd drop by and share my thoughts about Gangland. As an exercise in layout, Gangland is top notch. This is why the game was originally created and the layout of the game is a plus. It is easy to read and follow, and it looks good. I love the use of side bars. The instances of flavor text are a joy to read and really make this little 10 page game seem a greater whole than its limited size might allow. The game feels complete.
Conceptually, the game is fine too. I don't need a setting for something like this. I am with you here... less is more. I could see using this for modern and futuristic game play. The cleanness of the game design makes adding skills and adapting settings a snap.
One of the things I always think about when I try to design a game is balancing power. Most of the power level issues in Gangland would seem to stem from the availability of both weapons and ammo which a good GM can keep well in check especially given the premise of the game. So in this system and premise work well together. The material in the Gangland additions I think helps to fill this out (especially the premise part) and a consolidated document would be welcome.
Also, have you had problems with Min/Max players starting with a 50 in hand guns and a 50 in speed and giving themselves 100% to hit? Do the modifiers off-set this enough? Have you considered limiting starting values a bit to encourage more balanced characters?
The arbitrary skill categories are useless to me. Drive Skills, Firearms Skills, Places, Moving, People, Things ... these categories don't serve any purpose. I think it would be better to place the skills you have under their relevant attributes: Smarts, Muscle, Speed, and Savior Fair then it would be easy to see which to values to add together to make a roll.
About the name "Savior Fair" for the "Charisma" trait... why? This stuck out to me as weird because it just didn't seem to fit the "Gangland" theme... why not a word more in keeping with the criminal lingo / premise ... maybe "Moxie" or "Guts" or "Cool" or "Sheen" or "It" or simply "Charm" or "Style?" I don't know... it's nit-picky... but "Savior Fair" just didn't match the premise for me.
The initiative mechanic seems a bit wonky... subtract d% from Speed... high goes first... just seems too cumbersome to me... a player with a 42 Speed who rolls a 93 has an initiative of -51 ... negative numbers can be a pain. Why not just make Initiative d% + Speed and high goes first. It's the same thing, but addition is easier and no negative numbers to mess with.
You talk about Health and Healing but not about Unconsciousness and Death. Is a character dead at zero wounds or only unconscious? Things like that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw Aardvark
First of all - what do you think of the layout and design? Does the 1/3 - 2/3 layout work, or would a more standard arrangement work?
Do NOT change the 1/3 - 2/3 layout. It is perfect. It is easy to navigate through and makes the most of these 10 pages of text. Don't change it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw Aardvark
Do segments stand out appropriately? Can you find the optional rules? Are the examples helpful?
No problems finding what I needed. The skill use example is fine but... the most important is the example of combat that jumps inexplicably to page 8... Why? I think the combat example should come sooner. Also the combat example seems incomplete... we didn't even go through the full round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainsaw Aardvark
What kind of game would you run? Heroic? Gritty? What kind of setting material should be added? I've got stuff for supernatural, martial arts, armored vehicles and setting in the far future, but I'm not going to develop the settings if they won't get used.
As I was reading this I was thinking the "Top Secret" James Bond kinda thing and also near future or "Firefly." The settings stuff isn't vital to me with a system as clean as this. And you never know what people will use... if it were me... and I had the time, I'd do two or three pages on each setting and include them all in the rules as you work to flesh this product out.
These are just my initial thoughts and suggestions. I like Gangland. It is as clean and easy as they come. It's the kind of system that will not get in the way of game play allowing things to stay fast and loose. The layout / design is superb and the flavor text wonderful. It's great work Jason, really it is... and only in 10 pages... to me that's a bonus.
Jeff Moore
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jeffmoore - Mangabey
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