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Game Therapist: Stained Glass

The official Game Chef discussion archive for the 2005 and 2006 seasons
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Game Therapist: Stained Glass

Postby kleenestar » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:38 am

I didn't want to call this a Game Destroyer thread, because 14thknight seems to want a more fixing/revision/brainstorming-oriented thread. I figured I'd start this up on the theory that there are definitely things I liked about Stained Glass, and I'd like to see some of those problems get worked out. Also I'm counting this as a deposit in the karma bank of Getting People To Give Me Feedback. :)

So, my basic reaction to Stained Glass is that it's a really interesting concept that needs to be brutally revised. The core of the game seems to be the theme of "what is moral in a given situation," with players judging one anothers' actions. This is a really strong idea, and gives a clear guide to what the game should be about. Other strong ideas are the knights trying to be canonized, and the code of the knights which is also their attributes.

In my only-moderately-humble opinion, everything else has to go - or at least be seriously questioned. If you can't make a case about why it ties directly into these themes, it doesn't belong in the game. For example, your resolution system is broken because it doesn't reflect what the players should be doing (judging each other morally), not just because it's mechanically problematic (although it also is!).

Here's the degree to which I think you should be questioning: do players really portray different knights competing to be sainted? Somehow the competition between players doesn't seem to fit with the feel of your Code. The way you have things set up, the players have no motivation to help each other out, but I feel that brother (and sister!) knights would feel otherwise.

So, in the spirit of radical brainstorming, here are a couple of things you might consider:

- The GM plays a single knight, and the other players portray the virtues. Each player is arguing for their own virtue, and players are rewarded based on whose virtue most affected the knight's eventual canonization. All players lose if the knight behaves badly!

- The players are themselves the council who must decide if a knight is worthy of being canonized, and the GM (or one player at a time, taking turns) brings a knight before them. Each player is responsible for introducing obstacles related to one of the virtues.

- The players' knights each embody a different virtue, and all of them must be sainted in order for some great benefit to come to their order.

I'm not sure that any of these are the right idea (though I'm kind of fond of the second!), but I hope it shows you the kind of questions I hope you'll ask.

As for system, I think that before you try to design a system, you need to ask yourself what it means for a knight to be good and worthy of sainthood. Is the ideal for a knight balance among the qualities? Is it being extraordinary in one or two ways? Is it demonstrating that they're willing to suffer for virtue? Your answer to the question "What does it mean to be virtuous" will actually help you figure out what the tensions in your system might be, and what success and failure might look like.

I do think that at the end of the game, successful players should get to describe what their stained glass window portrays. Fun. :)

Obviously there's much more to be said, but these kinds of radical questions need to be answered before we can work out any details. 14thknight, is this the kind of thing you were hoping for?
kleenestar
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Postby Antti-san » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:56 am

I had similar thoughts about Stained Glass. Ethics and morality have been my favorite subjects in school for a long time and I really like to discuss about them with my friends, and this game has potential to raise questions considering them. I'd definetely do the game from that point.

I found the mechanics rather complicated, mainly because of the glass beads. Besides, not many have enough beads to form those large pools that the game suggests.

I have nothing much to say, kleenestar did a good job giving this game therapy it needed. Gee, I'd like to see someone do a GameTherapist on my Psykhotherapy. I'm very likely to publish it and I'd like to see what needs to be done to make it a better game. :)
"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
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Postby 14thWarrior » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:57 am

Leo M. Lalande
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Postby Doug Ruff » Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:15 am

[quote="14thWarrior"]

Let me first address your statement of "you need to ask yourself what it means for a knight to be good and worthy of sainthood"]

One way of making absolutely sure that this question comes to the fore in play:

- The characters are destined to become saints, or are already saints (and you're playing the game in flashback.)
- Now tell their story.

From this starting point, everything that the characters do in game is automatically "worthy of a saint". The question is now, what sort of saint are they? Are they perfect and incorruptable, or reformed sinners, or merciless judges, or something else?
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