whining...aka I have an idea...but

[Chainsaw Aardvark]

I didn't stop to think of playing cards initially, but a that is and amazing idea. Make it small enough and you could place the game and the cards that serve as a randomize in one package... Seems to make a bit more sense then my on and off again idea about a game that fits in a CD case.

As to pay to play contests, while it sounds like a decent concept, I have a number of misgivings.

First of all, there may be some legal issues with this. If our organization is receiving money for a service, we are probably liable for taxes. Exactly what the cut-off points are, I'm not sure, and for that matter, I don't know what country and laws this site is registered to. (I know Mr. Lang is in Englnd, but how about Keeton?)

Secondly, we don't know the likelyhood of any given contest paying for itself. Our first contest had 30 entries, and a roughly 45 dollar prize. Two dollars each wold have paid, even if half balked at the entrance fee. A shorter contest, or one with more esoteric goals than producing a game in 24 hours might have a very different turn out. We don't have the the experience to go on yet.

I would also ask, where does the money go and who is put in charge of it. While I don't see embezzling as a potential problem, if we have less than necessary to pay for the prize, how is it returned, and if there is more available, what happens with the balance?

Generally speaking, I'm far more inclined towards prizes offered through the site - special pages for winning games, interviews with the authors, a winner's circle... These might not be quite the incentive a monetary prize holds, but but are certainly easier to manage.

Now if 1km1kt.net ever ends up as its own legal entity/imprint (like Indie Press Revolution?) then monetary contests seem to fall under general business or promotions. I'll see what answers I can get from some of the people I know who work in accounting.

[kumakami]

CA-
like any contest pay entree fees can be "donations" and since there is nothing really being bought its hard to tax it.

as for attendance, if their are too few to pay for the cost of prize...then its used to offset cost. the winner(s) will still get their prize, it just will burn the contests runs wallet.

I'm more incline towards a prize I my self would in fact want. Praise in nice, but that is what the forum is for.

this was more for the fun of it then for 1km1kt. I just Had an idea I thought had merit.

[DavidEBest]

CA, you make some good points.

Even though I suggested the idea, I sort of cringe at the idea of pay-to-play contests. It (in my opinion) runs contrary to the concept of free RPGs, and it certainly would be a barrier to entry for some potential entrants. I, as a relatively new member of this community, thought it was a possible solution, so I put it on the list. Since there was a monetary prize for the 24 Hour contest, I assumed that the infrastructure CA mentioned was already in place.

Prize-wise, I think recognition is fine. I didn't enter the 24 Hour competition because I thought I was going to win. I did it because it sounded like fun, I had a bit of free time, and I was in a creative mood. Sort of a 24 Hour RPG perfect storm.

I feel this proposed competition is different. The task is to create an rpg in a format that would probably be a pain to read in PDF on the screen. The printed final product is pretty integral to the format, especially if you include card-based randomization.

Maybe that means this wouldn't make a good competition for 1km1kt, I dunno. If it isn't a good fit right now, maybe it should be put on the backburner and reevaluated at a later date.

Let me know if you decide to run this competition. I would be interested in helping and/or competing.

Dave

[kumakami]

as I said in the opening, I was whining really didn't think I was going to get it to work. all in all if I had the money I would have funded the comp. and just started it up.

[Rob Lang]

I think it's a cool idea.

I'll fund it. £30 amazon voucher as before. It's nice and easy, can't go wrong and everyone loves Amazon.

Kuma, start working on finish dates, rules and so on. I'd leave the finish date until after Christmas now to give us time to advertise and get sorted.

[misterecho]

So the idea is to write a full RPG with mechanics, setting, adventure.... on playing cards size?
thats extreme

[Chainsaw Aardvark]

I didn't necessarily say it was pay to play was a bad idea, I just said there were some prat-falls in asking for money we should consider first. I'm not sure if it counts as a donation, if you're required to make one to participate. One of my friends is in business school, his father is a stock broker, my mom is an accountant, and dad handles orders from engineers, so these sorts of things tend to occur to me.

However, I could see a set-up where we have say, three contests a year. Two are anybody enters, and one is the pay to enter for the big prize. Or possibly, simply accept donations year round, and however much is collected determines the end of the year big contest award (so its voluntary and not direct fee for service.)

There is the question of who handles banner adds at the top of every page around here are paying our server costs or not. (I'd guess Keeton) Some sort of deal with RPGNow and the like has been proposed in the past - though I don't really have the experience or authority with this.

Your altruism, Mr. Lang, is quite impressive. So to is the idea for a game on playing card style pages. Hopefully I can finish with some of the distractions I have around here and contribute positively as well.

[Rob Lang]

No worries. I don't like pay to play. The adverts are important - they go towards the hosting costs and are the remit of OUR GLORIOUS BENEFACTOR.

If Kuma is keen on running this madcap idea, then I will happily sponsor it. Anything that gets free RPGs out there is good in my book and this idea is so mad, I HAS to work! I've spent about £80 on my hobby in 10 years. 30 of that went on the last competition, so I think my hobby isn't too expensive.

Most of all, we should keep it simple: upload X before deadline Y. Get it judged. Get a prize. Not everyone does it for the money but it is nice to get rewarded for effort you put in and I like the idea of giving a little back to those who give me so much pleasure!

[misterecho]

EIGHTY QUID! in TEN YEARS? ...

You obviously don't play D&D

[DavidEBest]

Rob, I want to echo the other posters in thanking you for your altruism. I didn't realize you solely funded the previous contest. Hopefully this competition spawns as many interesting additions to the Free RPG-dom as the 24 Hour competition.

Kumakami - My offer still stands; if you would like any help organizing, promoting, etc., I would be glad to help.

Dave