Close Combat: Why I don't like "Break"

[Rob Lang]

I mentioned that Version 4 will not have a 'Break' move in it. DOC mentioned that he rather liked Break as a move. I don't like break as a move because it rather stunts the flow of combat. The aim of close combat sequences is to have a flow of kicks, punches and knock-downs. None of the moves specifically change the physiology of the combatants - most lead to a gradual reduction of Stun until one is unconscious.

Break is different: It does 20% Stun (regardless of your Meat Attribute) and does Meat in Damage. However, common sense can also be brought in here. If you've done four breaks on an opponent, surely they are dead? Or in real trouble because they're running out of limbs. If you break someone's neck or spine, the fight is over. Much of roleplaying relies on common sense to fill in those gaps that making rules for would be too unruly.

It also leads to the combo: Hold, Break, Break - which for a Meat of 6 does 40 Stun and 12 damage. That's rather a lot of damage for fist-fighting. Compared to all of the other moves, it's wildly overpowered. You have to be Arnie The Governator to do 20 points of stun to someone with a kick or stamp but even the weediest weed can do a Break.

This makes the core of Close Combat very simple indeed however complexity is then added using the Street Fighting, Akarak Art, the brutal Rail Fighting and Gun Fu.

[DOC_Agren]

[Rob Lang]

Thanks for your support, Doc! I can see why you might want to finish a fight quickly - good fighters should be able to do that and I think they can without the break:
Prerequisites:
Meat: 5+
Battle:8+
Street Fighting at 60, Rail Fighting at 90

Combo: Kick Kick Kick Kick

End result: Opponent Dead.

How: Pressure Points (Rail Fighting at 90) allows you to do damage the same as the Stun (but only to Torso).

Therefore, your Damage 2 x Meat for each kick = 40 points of Damage in total. You only have 40 points on your Chest, so that's game over! In a single round, which is 3 seconds. That's extremely quick for sending someone This is fine because it assumes the target is a human and that the attacker is a very tough rail fighter.

All this doesn't get away from the common sense aspect of roleplaying. If you break someone's arms, they're not going to be able to punch you and if you get a break on the neck then that's just as tough as the example above, without the need for toughened rail fighting.

As the aim for many in Icar is to get bionics, it is then that things get nasty. Your Meat is in the 20s and every punch you do is counted as a blunt weapon.

However!
The core rules need to be written for those people who really do not have a single clue about how fights go. I can imagine they might get a bit confused over Break because it is way more powerful than anything else. Your group seem to have loads more knowledge and common sense than the average roleplayer so I think (with your GM's permission), you should be able to dream up loads of different moves that are fun to put in Combos but don't unbalance the game. Then publish them online for free and everyone can benefit.

I remember back in the mists of time, a couple of my players have great fun with this: they started adding wrestling-like moves into their combos. The moves might be more difficult to pull off but when they did succeed, it was a lot of fun.

Please feel free to house-rule to nuts off Icar. I do. My players have never really played stock Icar as I am forever trying new rule combinations, cutting things out or introducing new systems to tack on. Close combat has loads of scope for house rules and I'd be very keen to hear what you dream up.

[randolph]

sort of like one of the NPCs that Docs railfighter had a match with, the NPC had the psychotheatrics
quick reactions and lightning speed. always gweting inative and hurting from the beating he was takeing instead of a combo he used acrobatics and scale wall to do that Jackie Chan run up the wall and vault to put enough distance between himself and the PC so that the PC had to spend his action in closeing and he got a chance to breathe.not that it healped him that much. one of the things that we've been working on is setting up sheets of combos for the charecters
who qualify so that they will be avalible at hand.

[DOC_Agren]

[randolph]

another posible, requireing break to be the LAST move in a combo.
"SNAP" then they decide do i go on, do i give up, do i flip out that grenade arming pin that i've been carying around in my pocket and let 'em wonder wheare the heck it came from....

[DOC_Agren]

[DOC_Agren]

Rob,

I think I may have a fix for your issue with Break. Of course it only works for those are still human, those with Cyber get Blunt Damage anyways so not sure they will try break..as it will be less effective for them
Damage will be Stun = (Meat-d10)x2 min damages is 0
And Real damage of Meat-d10 min damages is 0

So it will be possible to try to break someones limb and not do any damage, so it will make it less desirable. This will also make it like the other CCM that all damage is based off Meat, however there is a modifier.

Or that fighter you showed earlier with Meat of 5 has a 60/40 chance of doing nothing when trying a break move, of course a Brick Shit House with meat of 10 is most likely going to do some damage when he tries to Break someone limb.