Skeletons

[viziel]

This is a good thread!

I sense I'm coming from the "other" camp in that I like structure in my RPGs. I like well-defined rules etc., But Rob's approach in ICAR is more free-form.

So, I can understand the reluctance to put down fixed rules on making skeletons because you don't want to limit players imaginations and give them cookie-cutter layouts.

What about this idea, as mentioned by DOC_Agren,

A set of ICAR guidelines for skeleton creation:
(as an example)
General Education: (if the character is educated, they would have these skills, if not perhaps they have a different set that would have to be approved by the GM, like a streetwise skill).

Class skills: Skills that define the characters job(s) in his/her life. These are often trained skills, perhaps they should be allowed to pick 3-5 Epoch 1 skills?

Pickup skills: (again the idea stolen from Cyberpunk) These are additional skills the character has learned on their own accord, either through life experience or training. The character would have a pool of percentage points to spend on any number of skills, with no skill being over X%.

This is a general idea...just for ICAR

The Scavenger Setting would have tighter restrictions such as requiring
Zero-G Operations , Mechasys Extraction skills which means they will have less "class" skills. (this would mean they could only have 1-3 class skills as an example.

By doing this, you are not making big lists of skeletons and making a player pick one, but instead providing borders and limits on how much they can choose but giving them teh freedom of choice. Of course, the GM must approve all skeletons first!

Thoughts? suggestions?

[Rob Lang]

I might include it in an optional rule because I think it is open to massive abuses. I would probably limit it by allowing people to assign % amongst skills. You can then ensure that the rules for taking skills are met - for example, you need 60% in epoch 1 before you can get epoch 2. Then people can choose whatever characters they want.

For example (very simple example):
You get 500% to spend.
I want to be a fighter, so I take:
Streetfighting at 90%
I then buy Railfighting at 60% (it must start 30% below Epoch 1 skill, like it would if you bought it using RP).

That's 150% so far, got 350% to spend...
Light firing at 90%
And Gun Fu at 60%

200% left, which I will split between Pilot Grav, Med Basic and Gaia Know.

Perhaps with some suggestions of what skills you should really have, is that the sort of thing you're after?

[viziel]

Yes yesssss! MORE MORE!

Cuz literally, I can't make a character with the rules..I just dont know how to handle the skills at this point. To me it reads "pick whatever you want". OK fine.

I will take all systems skills all design skills in Gaia and Mechasys etc., become a master engineer and rule the universe.

Ya I will need experience to raise those skills but if I spend nuff time working on it I could.

Seems to me a human starting out in this game shouldn't have that much know.

IMHO, they could start out with a couple of system and design skills at most...but beyond that they'd have to get training or something. Maybe I'm off on that.

I really like the idea that you have this pool of points to spend. Thats a good start. And I really like the fact that you have a set number in mind before you can qualify for an Epoch 2 skill.

This should be put in the skill list as requirements, just like you do with bionics, list whats required for that skill. Its a standard and solid game mechanic.

The best system I think, was cyberpunk. It did have one bad thing.

This is how cyberpunk worked for the "solo" a fighter type class.

You get:
STREETWISE - this skill was UNIQUE to the class nobody else could get it its what made a solo different from everyone else, it modified their initative rolls and combat rolls.

7 other skills - These were picked from the skill list. This is what differentiated bounty hunters from soldiers from bodyguards...all solos...but all slightly different skills

Pick-up skills - If your character was smart, you'd get more skill pts to spend. The reward of being clever.


This is similar to what your skeleton is, however you don't have unique skills. So thats something to consider, because you could have two players calling themselves Scav Techs and they have different skills?? Maybe thats ok.

The other thing that I'd like to suggest is you mention some basic education skills. I like this idea, as most people in your ICAR setting are fairly well educated right? Its hyper future so they should be. So, a basic education package should be available, OTHERWISE you have to pickout something else that your character relies on since they'd have no formal education, like streetwise...

So by breaking down skeleton into 3 components (Unique class skill, profession skills, pick-up skills) I think you'd get an accurate framework (subject to GM approval of course!). Throw in skill requirements to make some harder to learn than others and you got it.

This is all just an idea. Really I just want to understand the ICAR mechanics so I can make a character and right now I'm stumped.

[Rob Lang]

[viziel]

[DOC_Agren]

Rob,

What I would like is "guidelines".
I look at the following 7 skills to be "part" of the general education package all people in ICAR universe get.
Language
Law
History
Biology
Physical
Chemical
Gaia Know
as it is kinda what you I can see as "Coming though school system" skills, and for most PC/NPC they will have these at Baseline

And from there some sort of guidelines how many skills slots should be included and if U can have Epoch 2 and Epoch 3 skills, U should loss 1 slot or these skill should start at "lower" levels... Instead of (4 x Wit) + D10 for Epoch 2 and (2 x Wit) + D10 Epoch 3

Yet I'm not against the Skeleton ideas, after all Juan started as a plain Scav Security Officer.. yet he not a cookie cutter PC.

And I agree the U have X# of points to stat out the PC, can be abused badly., unless like before Epoch 2 and Epoch 3 skills, end up have slightly greater cost

[viziel]

Yep, that would work too!

I was just kicking around a skeleton...

Engineer (need better name)
============
Remmar Technomage
Attribute Requirements
Wit 7
Soul 5

Language
Physical
Astromechanics
Chemical

Gaia Know
Gaia Systems
Gaia Design
Gaia Hacking
Automation Know
Automation Design
Automation Systems
Artificical Intelligence
Weapon Know
Weapon Systems

Starting Equipment
Shakespear Technical Kit. Gaiajack. Isis. 2 Changes of clothing.
Environment Suit. Personal Effects.

[Rob Lang]

Thought you might like to know that I added a largish section on making Skeletons into the GM section last night. It's a mix of "If your playing this, make sure you have these" and a completely untested (and open to abuse) point buy system that is based on the RP system. It's in the GM Section because the players don't really need to see it, either the GM is going to create the Skeletons for the players to choose from or they're going to say "You have 250 RP, off you go!".

See? I do listen to my audience.

[edit] Eventually... [/edit]

[Onix]

Oooooh shiny!

I don't know if it's too late, but I just watched John Wick's youtube video on Santa Vaca where he's talking about using feats to build characters instead of having character classes and thought that it was basically a build your own character class system. It wouldn't quite work for Icar but maybe it would give an idea or two. It certainly got my noggin churning.

[Rob Lang]

Definitely idea worthy but Icar comes from an old school of "roll and move on". How the character starts is nowhere as important as what it does after creation, so I don't like to waste too much time doing it.