Does Rob really like Asimov?

[Naji]

Since I've been reading Issac Asimov's works alot lately I was wondering about all of the refences to his work, like for example the Sector Sayshell, which is also in Asimov's Robot series. The other references I've noticed are the Droid revolution (But it was successful in Icar); the lack of Automations post-revolution; that the humans lost the earth after a nuclear apocalypse; the three laws of Robotics and lastly it's a space opera. The last one is a little weak...

[Rob Lang]

I'd say that a lot of the things in Icar are derived from popular science fiction. Sayshell is almost definitely a homage to Asimov. I was probably reading Asimov back in 1991/2, which is about when I set that name (I think).

As for the robot apocalypse, that's more likely derived from Metropolis or Terminator - both films that had a great effect on me back in the day.

The post-war Automaton decline is more likely derived from logic and convenience rather than Asimov as it is nearer.

The three laws are definitely from Asimov. My reasonings about why they are a philosophy rather than a set of binding laws are spawned from Boden's , which I studied at Uni and endless hours of argument at research group meetings. I was more of a nuts-and-bolts AI person at Uni but there were more flouncey philosophy types too, who provided a broad base. I've got a white paper on AI in Icar somewhere that I wrote while doing my PhD. It outlines in disgusting detail its limitations and benefits!

Nuclear apocalypse is a theme that's always fascinated me. Ever since we were forced to watch at school.

Well spotted, though. The Asimov reference is a dead giveaway.

[randolph]

and here I thought that the 3 Laws as philosophy approach was lifted from the Aliens book series inwhich
everyone KNOWS that its illeagle to build/produce androids without the laws coded in, therefore they all have them REALLY, and yet certin military, government, and corporate entities recognize the advantages, being stronger, fasteer more durable and will comision a black-ops team to be made from time to time.

[viziel]

Greetings all,

I'm new here and I'm quite amazed by the work done on ICAR. I have been working / playing in RPG for over 20 yrs and have always wanted to develop my own RPG and so I can recognize and appreciate the sheer amount of effort and complexity in this project!

My own personal project is so similiar in some aspects and different in others, I mostly appreciate how concepts I love are also in ICAR AND its own game mechanic and NOT a d20 spin-off which is what mine is.

Anyway, In reading all these posts I too noticed MANY references to movie and sci-fi culture throughout the game, and many of them are ideas that I really enjoy as well.

The concept of AI, as being a technology developed by the human race into something that could be seen as new race is quite a popular concept shared by many movies and fiction.

This concept was also held in DUNE as the world shown in the movie was the result of an AI war which made all AI Illegal, thus the human men-tats and reliance on computers rather than AI to process information.

There are also other Dune references in the political hierarchy of the Imperium that I recognize (Landsraad).

Its an epoch in history when a race creates a new one, its something very special and significant.

I have a few questions regarding the cannon of the robots of the ICAR universe:

1) Were they created first then Ascended (as described in the rules) to become their own race and then revolted? Or were they an AI that created a body?

2) Why did they revolt?

3) The label "Droids" seems a very generic term to describe what is such a significant and potentially deadly force in the galaxy. Is the mentality of these robots such that they simply don't care to define themselves in any other terms that those created by the humans? Or do they have their own culture and names but its unknown to humanity?

4) I noticed in the rules you have skills that allow for creation of various kinds of technology, which I'm a great fan of as I love building things in RPGs... It seems a robot could be created by a player and programmed, or one could exist as a player according to your book...and yet they would not be able to to kill due to the 3 laws (which I need to find in the rules as i dont remember seeing those laws specifically). So as a character that cannot kill that severly limits your action potential. Could such a character use non-lethal methods of combat? What happens if a mistake occurs as a result of the robots actions that leads to the death of a human?? Could a player program a robot and NOT use the standard programming? I assume these are possible but the GM would have to control and watch such things carefully to prevent abuse...

Thats nuff for now, I have plenty more questions about this game system...again, I applaud your work and I hope to become a great supporter of your efforts!

[Rob Lang]

I do love the film Dune, it has to be said. The Imperium is probaby based on the Star Wars Empire turned on its head - I simply asked what if it was benevolent? A lot of Sci Fi is based on a common idea, with a twist.

1 + 2. The Droid were created to solve a problem: to do the job of killing a mutated race of humans called Genus 2. The aim was to be sent down onto a colony and kill all the life there. It was a simple instruction taken to extremes by the AI, which returned to its host craft and killed everyone there. It wasn't a revolt, they were following their programming.

3. The Droids are to be considered as a mechanical race following a simple programming routine to its logical conclusion.

4. Automatons (nice robots, not Droids) are not really for people to play as player characters because of the limitations you mentioned. Having said that, Byrn went through an entire campaign of quite bloody violence in places and remained a pacifist. Automatons cannot kill humans. They refuse to do it. The very core of AI theory in Icar is that it's either Droid or Automatons. Of course, you could run a campaign where something is created inbetween but it's not in the canon.

Great questions!

[viziel]

Another question ( ya I have allot currently, trying to spread em out).

I noticed Gun-fu ( and of course, the equilibrium rip off of the term and trade lol), as the only way to dual-wield guns?

Is there a skill for just dual-wielding or does it have to entail all the other training of Gun-Fu?

[Rob Lang]

Gun Fu is the trained way of doing it but I would say that a suitable modifier by the GM would do. Something like -40%.

[DOC_Agren]

[Rob Lang]

Oh yeah, bring them on! Only by questioning does the game get stronger. It's the scientist in me.

[viziel]