Dinosaur Cowboys skirmish game

[Onix]

I've been trying to read through the PDF, haven't had much time to but I'll get to it eventually. In the mean time, I did a blog post about training animals a bit ago. I think what I was going for is too complicated for your needs or wants for Dinosaur Cowboys but it may give you a few ideas.

I like the idea that this can be a GMless game for those quick and fun games.

[kylesgames]

I like the first three the best. I'm not even sure of dino anatomy would allow them to buck in a truly dismounting manner, and a skilled rider could probably stay on anyway.

[bosky]

What I'm thinking about now:

Split Movement for Dinosaurs (only): Disciplined and Undisciplined rates (still not sold on the names, maybe Normal and Frenzied?). Disciplined is a flat rate and is similar to what the rulebook already has (4", 10", etc.). Undisciplined is a random dice, like D4 if they had 4", D6 for 6", D8, D10, etc.
Discipline statistic: This replaces Bravery for Dinosaurs, and is affected by Training.
Damage Threshold: The amount of damage necessary to trigger a Discipline test in a Dinosaur.

If a Dinosaur takes more damage than their Damage Threshold in a single attack they must make a Discipline test, which is rolling D12, if it's >= Discipline stat then they fail. Upon failure the Dinosaur is Fleeing and also considered "Undisciplined". Fleeing means they have to move directly away from the nearest enemy upon their next Activation. Undisciplined means they have to use the random movement distance of the Undisciplined score. They can regain the Disciplined status by rolling a Discipline test at the start (or maybe end) of their Activation.

That's the basic framework I'm aiming to go with. I really like the split movement idea and how they can get into a "wild" state where they move less distance (representing the rider trying to keep the beast under control). I still wish there was a more elegant way to determine HOW they get into that state than a new Discpline statistic and Damage Threshold.
I figure I could modify the Posse roster to make MV a split field (with a diagonal line similar to HP) where the top number is Disciplined and the bottom is Undisciplined. Then BRV is replaced by Discipline which is another split field where the top value is their Discipline statistic and the bottom value is the Damage Threshold.

I also kind of like the idea of the Fear Scale, where each time a Dinosaur is "broken" (ie: they fail a Discipline test) they check off a checkbox on the Fear Scale. Then the next time they are broken instead of Fleeing they might be Stunned, then after that maybe Stopped, then after that some worse effect, etc.

The alternative is to simply keep Bravery, put a different threshold for Bravery Test in the existing HP slot (since HP/2 is too hard to do as damage against a 35HP+ creature), and on failure go to the split MV scores until a Bravery Test is passed.

[bosky]

I implemented Discpline into the rulebook and am going to playtest that a few times before making it official. Here's how it works in the updated version:

So basically each Dinosaur has a set Discipline value (currently between 3 and 10) and if damage from a single attack exceeds that value they add a Panic token (multiple can be added). If they Activate while having a Panic token they use a random movement distance instead of their set value. For example the Runner uses D10" instead of 10". At the end of their Activation they remove 1 Panic token automatically, plus 1 additional Panic token if they are mounted (representing the rider soothing/calming down/controlling the dinosaur).
Dinosaurs can be Trained or Untrained. Trained get +1 Discipline, +1 MMC whereas Untrained get -1 Discipline, +2 HP. I'm not 100% sold on those numbers though and might just make both be a modifier to Discipline and Hitpoints (and maybe just +/- 1 HP instead of 2).

That's roughly how the system works, and here's the rulebook excerpt for it:

----
Discipline
Discipline represents a dinosaur's ability to perform in combat while suffering pain, surprise, fear, and other trying emotions of battle. A higher discipline means a dinosaur will be able to maintain a consistent pace and direction and obey any rider's commands. A lower discipline means the dinosaur is more likely to circle in panic and stumble around in fear.

How to use Discipline
If a dinosaur suffers damage greater than or equal to their Discipline value from a single ranged or melee attack they will panic.
Mark them with a "Panic" token. Multiple Panic tokens can be placed on each dinosaur.
For example a Horned Dinosaur has a Discipline of 8. They are hit by a Rotary Rifle for 11 damage and are therefore marked with a Panic token. During the next Activation they are hit by a Bundle of Dynamite for a further 8 damage, so another Panic token is added.

Effect of Panic
When marked with one or more Panic token dinosaurs will use their Panic Movement, as recorded on the Posse Roster.
For example a Runner Dinosaur has a Movement statistic of 10 and a Panic Movement of D10. If they were marked with a Panic token they would have to roll D10 to decide how far they can Standard Move, instead of using the static 10 value.

Recovering from Panic
At the end of the dinosaur's Activation remove 1 Panic token.
If the dinosaur is mounted remove an additional 1 Panic token.
For example a King Dinosaur (with two passengers) has 3 Panic tokens at the start of the turn. Eventually it Activates, rolls D6 for it's Panic Movement with a result of 2. The King performs a 2" Standard Move and then a rider fires. The King's Activation is done, so 2 Panic tokens are removed (1 default with a bonus 1 removed because the King is mounted).
----

I like this system better than the Bravery Test (which human character still use) as it distinguishes dinosaurs and also rewards pouring fire into them. Let me know what you think and whether the system looks faulty or can be improved!

[GSLamb]

Wow. Very quick and easy.
I like this very much.

I would still argue for the +1MMC for trained dinosaurs. For a test using 1d12, trained dinosaurs have an essential +2 bonus to their Discipline value. If basic math hasn't failed me, that's nearly +17% success chance on Discipline checks. This also reduces the number of Panic checks (because you have a higher threshold due to the larger Discipline).
Don't get me wrong, I think that there should be a serious difference between trained and untrained dinosaurs - something that would make it a tactical choice when creating a posse. With the MMC difference, you are trading off melee skill and health for more tactical control.

On a side note, I would simply give the stat line for untrained dinosaurs and list the modifiers for trained.

[bosky]

I'm also a fan of how these rules are shaping up. Funny to have such large changes when I thought they were pretty much done.

So keep in mind that there isn't actually a Discipline "test" per se (so nothing on a D12 like there was for Bravery). Discipline is just a static value that causes Dinosaurs to automatically Panic if they take damage >= Discipline from a single attack. So there isn't a roll involved for this, it's just:
"My Runner has a Discipline of 4. He is hit by a pump shotgun for 7 damage *adds a Panic token* and then a stick of dynamite for 6 damage *adds another Panic token* and then a light pistol for 2 damage *does nothing*"

One Panic token is removed after the dinosaur Activates (plus an extra one is removed if there is a rider, which seems like an elegant solution to show the rider calming the beast). If a dinosaur has a Panic token when they Activate then they have to use Panic Movement (random distance, but they can control the direction) compared to the static flat Movement.

As for the Trained/Untrained setup, I actually moved towards the idea of Allegiances for dinosaurs (the rules are in flux right before your eyes ). Similar to how human cowboys can be Dusters (slower but tougher), Neotechnoists (weaker but better with guns), etc. dinosaurs can choose a "Breed" that can modify some stats. Here are the four I went with:

Trained
Trained dinosaurs are born in captivity or raised in a human environment soon after birth and make ideal companions. They are disciplined mounts well versed in accepting a rider and carrying them safely through battle. However they are slightly gentler after having their primal instincts suppressed.
Effect: +1 DIS, -2 HP

Untrained
Untrained dinosaurs have some exposure to humans but not enough to be fully broken into a saddle and harness. This majority of dinosaurs are this type of breed, and such an upbringing has no positive or negative effect on their performance.
Effect: None

Feral
Feral dinosaurs are wild and free and hunt through the jungles and deserts of the world. They tend to be tougher and less disciplined and think more with their stomachs than brains.
Effect: -1 DIS, +2 HP

Plains
Plains dinosaurs roam across the flat scrub land, desert, and dust bowls outside the volcanic jungle. As a result they are exceptionally fast and agile, but are less competent in a fight because of their tendency to outrun foes instead.
Effect: +1 MV, +1 MMC

So yeah, there we are. Do you think those modifiers look okay or do they not balance for you? I just made them up on the spot when I was updating the rulebook, but they seem on par with what Allegiances do for cowboys. Let me know if you think otherwise though!

[bosky]

Oh, also here is how the Dinosaur List looks with Discipline and Panic MV implemented. Let me know if you think these values are drastically off:



And this is how the cleaned up statline looks on the posse roster:



I dropped their second weapon slot which really cleared up a lot of space and let me comfortably add Type and Size. Also the Breeds are marked with the T/U/F/P to the left of the name, similar to how Allegiances are tracked. And then a slot of MV and PMV and DIS (I really like the background icon for that one).

[bosky]

Changing gears here to another topic: Hitpoints.

Currently Dinosaur Cowboys uses low levels of Hitpoints (default value of 8, but it can easily be modified to 6 or 10 by Allegiance. Highest is 37 HP for a Longneck Dinosaur). I had toyed with the idea of using a Knocked Down / Stunned / Out of Action system like Mordheim, but ended up staying with my RPG roots and using Hitpoints. Normally it takes 2-4 hits to kill someone, although with powerful enough guns and a weak enough target it can be done in a single shot.

I was reading about alternative systems today, and came up with an idea that I think would be pretty neat:

Hitpoints are replaced with a stat called Grit, which is a die type (D4 [worst], D6, D8, D10, or D12 [best]). Whenever an entity takes damage they roll a "Grit Save" using their die type. If their roll is greater than or equal to the incoming damage it's negated.
Example: Take 5 damage from a Six-Shooter, roll my Grit Save of D6. If I roll a 5 or 6 the damage is ignored.
If the Grit Save is failed (if I had rolled a 2 in the above example) or impossible (like if I only had D4 Grit in the above example) then I must take an Injury. To track Injuries I would add a small checkmark underneath the MV, AR, RMC, and MMC fields on the Posse Roster for each character, and then when taking an Injury the player who took the damage would check off one of these stats. Doing so modifies it negatively by 1 to represent getting hit in the legs, torso, or either arm respectively. For example if I suffer an Injury on a fast character I might sacrifice some Movement by checking their MV score, which would reduce it by 1. Then to "kill" a target you'd need to cause 4 Injuries. Obviously fields that are already checked couldn't be re-checked a second time.
What do you guys think? I kind of dig this system as it's a bit more flavorful and requires marginally less bookkeeping. I think I might end up making it an Official Variant Rule though.

Hope to hear some feedback!

[kylesgames]

Grit would actually not be bad, try it out and see how it goes. It also could make dinos more interesting, since they'll be less likely to feel a gunshot than a grenade.

Also, maybe the bolting distances could be at times further than the normal, with a note that if a further distance is applied the rider could fall?

[Onix]

I like the idea of Grit, it makes sense. Now I don't know how you'd feel about this even if it's a great idea because it's not really my idea.

Intwischa had a homebrew rule for tracking ammo that I really liked and I think it dovetails with your Grit idea. Instead of counting down numbers, you step down on dice. If you had a D6 grit and you fail the roll, your grit is reduced to D4 grit. A big dino might have a Grit of D20, (Do dinos have grit? Sounds slightly weird.) when it gets wounded, it's grit drops to a D12, if it's wounded again it's a D10, D8, D6, D4, dead.

It's using dice steps instead of numbers and it makes it really easy to track large numbers. The main downfall here would be that no matter how powerful the weapon a big dino would take at least 7 hits to take down and very probably more.