"free" RPGs for print - would not-for-profit work?

[malladin_ben]

I'm just wondering, given that our efforts to make our games free means (essentially) that we're restricted to electronic media, what people thought about paying for printed product at "cost".

For example, if added the sample adventure I'm writing and one or two of the worked through character gen articles to Midgard I reckon I could get it up to a 32-page saddle-stitch book, maybe even to 64 page perfect bound with the addition of art and more reader-friendly (as opposed to self-print friendly) borders. If I printed it through Lulu it would be $6.30 for the 32 page version or $7.10 for the 64 pager for a single copy (rather than a print run of any length).

Do you think such an approach would be an infringement of "free" principles, or a way to expand intrest in our work to people who say "no PDFs" when they post to other sites asking for suggestions for games?

Cheerio,

Ben

[Rob Lang]

Ben, you raise a very interesting point!

In the end, someone is going to have to print it. I think most gamers prefer to have hardcopy at the gaming table (anyone here use a laptop? - how do you find that?), so they are going to put ink to paper at some point.

I went to GenCon UK with Icar last year and loads of people I'd talked to had said they'd been to see Icar but could not be bothered to print it. Once they'd seen the PDF, they'd be happy to pay for a copy - as long as they didn't have to worry about having toner, paper and all that bother. As one fellow said "It's my hobby after all".

When we make a game for free, we do it for many reasons. They include "Allow as many people play it as possible." Any designer really wants that. I do, I am sure you do too! Why would you share it online otherwise?

One way of making the game easier to play is to allow a 'print it for you' service - which is exactly what uploading to Lulu at cost is for. I think it's jolly good idea and I wholehearedly support it. It still remains free, with a purchasable copy

Good examples include Jags and Wonderland, both on (blatant plug apology). They both are free but have print versions too.

[malladin_ben]

[Rob Lang]

Although that would mitigate the cost, I like it less. I am not sure how you would offer a 'free' book to everyone that wants one. You'd not be able to say that and pay for it by advertising. Advertising brings in pennies, rather than pounds. A nice idea, though.

[Chainsaw Aardvark]

So long as its free in the electronic sense, you are still free to change and edit the work. If its a printed form that costs money, then there is both the difficulty of submitting revisions to the publisher, and the reluctance of the consumer to spend money again, especially if its just some minor changes. And if it isn't in the most polished form when someone spends good money on it, some dissatisfaction may spread. (And lets be honest, of the myriad of free games out there - how many would you consider paying for?)

Its also a matter of commitment. Its free, I've got hard disk space to spare, why not? Putting down cash for some unknown author and for a game that may not have any support down the road - that I'm a bit less willing to do.

Your idea is intriguing, and I would love to hear if it works (I could use the income) but it sounds a bit questionable.

[Rob Lang]

Absolutey, Chainsaw. You hit the nail on the head. The free PDF game must be in a state of suitablwe quality.

With many of the games I've reviewed over the past few months, it has struck me time and again that they are of similar quality to published games. I would hapily spend £5 for a print of some of the games I have seen. How many? Perhaps 6? I've printed and bound more than that for my own collection - with a view to running it in the future.

The big difference between free games (with a purchasable cousin) and ones you just buy normally is that you can download the free PDF, check it out and then decide whether you want a hard copy. Dissatisfaction can't spread if you've already seen it for free. If you know what you're getting. It's not bought through advertising blurb, nor is it purchased through the hubris of internet heresay - you can see the PDF first and make up your own mind. That is powerful. A power that is not available to the large corporations of this world.

As for support, sadly there are lots of games out there that are no longer supported. I'd say that is particularly true of free RPGs but also applies to published games. For years, Paranoia went unsupported until XP arrived. Also, I too feel the pain that when you want to make a new version, the printed book can't be easily updated. This just forces you to make absolutely sure that the book really is in a "finished state". As malleable as games are, you have to draw the line somewhere and, at that point, upload it to Lulu or similar.

Some great points. is a good example of this concept working really well. I can't speak for Marco Chacon on the numbers but it does have a considerable name in the FRPG world and that doesn't come for nothing.

Great discourse, Chainsaw, hurrah! Let's plough some life back into 1KM1KT.

[malladin_ben]

After I had the free with adverts idea I posted that suggestion over at Collective Endeavour, where I got some really useful feedback. Mainly I found out that the numbers really don't support funding through advertising. So, Once I've got Midgard fully tested, (and added a bit of setting, Rob ) I'll look into printing and then selling at cost.

Cheerio,

Ben

[Rob Lang]

Thanks for the tip about . Didn't know about that one.

Thrilled to hear that you're going to be adding a setting to Midgard, don't forget a sample adventure.

Naturally, when you re-release, I will just want a load more stuff.

[Chainsaw Aardvark]

It occurred to me that slap on a price tag and sell isn't the only method available to us. How many other means can we think of to compromise?

What would be the repercussions of using the old King Gillette model? (Give them the razor, but charge for new blades) Basic rules are free, but a number of additional sections - such as pre-made NPCs. major sections of setting information, and pre-made adventures - all had a modest cost for them?Where is the break point of enough to get them hooked, versus annoyance at paying for every little thing.

Obviously, this worked for the Gillette Corporation, and I've seen a number of war games on the net where rules are free, but models are not. This might be the most reasonable of the suggestions.

For our purposes, it might work to reverse that model - the story material is free, but the mechanics are for profit. If they enjoy the setting and buy the rules, wonderful. However, if they substitute a different rule system, there is still pride influencing them, and there may be word of mouth advertising for your writing.

How effective is ad supported web-space? Obviously there are plenty of companies that will give out free server space (Tripod, Angelfire, etc) if you don't mind banners or pop-ups - but what about ads that put money in your pocket? I've seen "get 5/10 cents per click" and "Advertise here $x.00 per month" but I have little idea of how well these means pay-out. Most people seem to have learned to ignore such items, and they can be an annoying intrusion on the design of your website.

Some Forge games were sold on the "ransom model" - they had a price until a certain number of people bought the game, then it became free. Once again, this seems like questionable wisdom to me. Like a recession with falling prices, why would I pay now when its cheaper later, especially for a luxury like a game.

Perhaps if it was a limited edition being ransomed with extra content that will not be available after a set period of time, but this falls into the same are amateur projects worth paying for I mentioned in a prior post.

Old fashioned begging - if you like this game, please donate via pay-pal - may work for some. Actually getting out a credit card and filling out the form seems like a hassle, if not as openly annoying as ad space, and altruism is a fickle thing.

[Astarotte]

I see there are some games licensed under the FDL uploaded here. Can't anything under this license be freely distributed under a cost?

If that was true anyone here could even open an online shop specialized in FDL publishing.