Encouraging Feedback

[Doug Ruff]

Hi,

In this thread, Andy suggested a brainstorm on how to encourage cross-posting during the competition.

First, let's define the problem: the Game Chef competition has got real big in the last couple of years, with around 40 submissions this year and several more ideas that didn't get completed in time for the deadline.

And the deadline is tough: I think a lot of people had to go full-out just to submit their game in time, which didn't allow much time to give helpful feedback and encouragement to the other entrants.

What am I missing?

[Harlequin]

I'm pretty sure there's a momentum issue involved, too. Someone cross-comments on your game, you'll be much more likely to go look at his. Noboby comments, you're that much less likely to go look at theirs. So I expect that above a certain point, comparisons and discussion with snowball; below that point, and they self-suppress.

One helpful thing might simply be to make sure that you have some people who are not submitting an entry, but are instead committed to spending some time browsing the posts and the discussion and stimulating it via comparisons and cross-referencing.

Hell, turn the Sideline Interviewer into a position. Have him stick his nose into peoples' threads, help make them feel more involved in this as a community, and give him free rein to make comparisons. Then have him post up little "zeitgeist" summaries which give people a one-stop shop for where things stand. Play all that up with a heavy dose of the campy fun. Have him play "let's you and him fight" to egg specific designers on to outdo one another.

For the reasons you list, it's still going to be an uphill struggle, because we're all focusing as hard as we can on cooking. But if you put someone to work mixing the whole together, it might help the event as a community in its own right.

- Eric

[Doug Ruff]

I loved the Sideline Interviewer thread. Even though it wasn't a direct source of feedback, I think it helped to build community, which indirectly leads to more cross-posting.

And having people sign up to do more browsing and discussion is good to. "Feedback ninjas" could do a lot to stimulate discussion. But do they have to be barred from competing themselves? Because that may discourage people, as well as formalising roles between people who compete and people who comment.

I think the answer is for some of us (as many as possible) to commit to being unofficial feedback ninjas next year. Even if it's just to make sure that we take the time to contribute to at least two or three people's threads, every time we post something to our own. That should help to generate momentum.

[Jason Petrasko]

Thanks Doug! I thought the sideline interviewer was fitting and colorful, keeping to the iron chef theme. I didn't think it would take off the way it did though, zow-E!

I think the ninja of the feedback clan is a great idea. Go Kitchen ninjas! My problem was that the timing constraints make it hard to both finish you own submission, and yet still have time to comment on others. I don't though see any easy solution to this.

[Justin D. Jacobson]

There just isn't enough time for many of us to cross-post about other games and still put in the time to get our own game done. Heck, I barely had time to post in my own thread. I don't think we should be encouraging more cross-posting. It takes time away from game creation, which IMHO is an inherently bad thing.

My real proposal: Advertise the contest and forums at RPGnet and other independent-minded forums and encourage non-participants to post and comment.

My off-the-wall proposal: Have one of the judge-types award additional time to participants for each meaningful post, extending their deadline accordingly. So, if you make a post in someone else's thread you get, say, an extra half hour. If you want to encourage behavior, you need to reward it.

[Doug Ruff]

There just isn't enough time for many of us to cross-post about other games and still put in the time to get our own game done. Heck, I barely had time to post in my own thread. I don't think we should be encouraging more cross-posting. It takes time away from game creation, which IMHO is an inherently bad thing.

I'll say straight up that I disagree with this - game design shouldn't exist in a vacuum, and I don't think that Game Chef is just about game design.

But that's just my opinion, and I think that your comments do raise an interesting question: how many of the participants actuallly wanted feedback and encouragement while they were designing?

I think that the answer to this will be "nearly all of them" - otherwise why start a thread in the first place? - but I'd be interested to see if there was anyone who actually felt that the comments were a distraction - particularly if they were already working to a tight deadline.

[Ben Lehman]

How about:
Next year, just one thread of rules and one thread of posts.

yrs--
--Ben

[kenjib]

I agree that time was one of the big concerns with commentary. Is the deadline of this contest really the beginning or end of the real game design? Now that the deadlines are over and done with, why not take this opportunity to start looking over the games in more detail and helping people revise and test them for further development? There's nothing to stop us now from spending as long as we like examining and commenting on the various games.

I think it could actually work out nicely this way if people actually stick around and work together from here out. The contest is about seeing what you can do on your own. The aftermath is about making good games from those initial solitary efforts.

[JenniferS]

Yes. Now that I'm not creating the game on top of taking care of a three year old with insomnia, I'll be happy to start reviewing the games. I think I'll start one at a time. From the bottom. When the Demon Child goes to sleep.

[matthijs]

One Big Thread for all games: Please, please don't. In such a thread, I'd hardly read anything at all.

Feedback Ninja: Two or three committed non-contestants would be great!

Time rewards for posting: Nyaah... Personally, I like a strict and simple deadline much better.

Some sort of informal reward could work well, though; "FEEDBACK FIEND OF THE YEAR: <insert name>" prominently displayed on the site, or something.

Feedback after the deadline: I'd hate to see this as a requirement. One week of dedication is more than enough. A fuzzy amount of dedicated time afterwards would scare me away from the contest.

So IMO, go Ninja, go!