What goes first: character generation or rules?

[Rob Lang]

I've recently handed some feedback to George Chatzipetros* on his cool universal system . One of the things that jumped out at me was that the character generation rules were after the main rules. This struck me as odd as most games use character generation as a way of describing the avatars upon which the rules are based.

George made a valid point that without knowing the rules, how do you build a character that makes best use of them? By putting the rules first, you will better understand what is important in a character.

This is such a good point that it's got me thinking that it might be better for some lite games. I still think character generation is a good way of introducing core game concepts in a step-by-step manner.

What do you think?

[Rob Lang]

[p.s.] For those that think I'm slipping, I've already asked for a setting for Multi10 - George is already writing one but we'll have to wait for it. [/p.s.]

[Onix]

I think for this system it makes some sense since it's a little different than most. People may need to understand unusual mechanics before they go assigning points. I'd usually say no though. The reason why is that players generally start by having the rule explained by the GM. Some players also have a really hard time finding things in a thick book (okay this isn't a thick book so maybe it would fly). I think this is why Character generation goes in the front and equipment in the back. The new players can pick up the book and start to read and immediately get to the part they need to do. Then in the middle of the game when they say "Where's the equipment" they are easily told "It's in the back of the book" and they find it.

I'm catering to the lowest common denominator here I realize. I'm sure the writers here were probably like me and could near instantly turn to any table in any of 23 game books they had (that was usually my job in most groups even when I wasn't GM). But the idea of finding something in the middle of a book is scary to a lot of players. I don't understand it but I have experienced it.

[Rob Lang]

[Onix]

The game scales differently and attributes are less critical. With an attribute of 1d I can, by chance get the same result as an attribute of 10d and the same skill level. That's something I'd want to understand when making a character. Still, the GM could still explain that and arrive at the same place as any other system. So I guess no, I wouldn't put the rules first.

[Chainsaw Aardvark]

Ahh, the great chicken or the egg question of role playing.

Most games do seem to put character creation first. Everybody needs a chance to see that part of the book - but once you've got a character, the GM can explain rules as they come up.

I've seen a few games take a third option and have people actually playing before they do either of these things. The old West End Games Starwars RPG had effectively a chose your own adventure story to introduce role-playing and problem solving. Cybergeneration starts with the characters on the run and their stats are determined when they get to the safe-house and take an in-universe aptitude test.

What might work for this game is the approach used in some of the Dream Pod 9 games I've read. A two or four page summary of how the die rolling system and bonuses work comes first. After that is character creation, and only later do the rest of the rules for combat/injury/drugs/etc. get explained.

Its a bit odd that in Multi-10 you get a description of attributes, their related special abilities, and skills before you get to how many points you have to spend.

[Rotku]

I think the question, in part, is wrong. THey shouldn't be mutually exclusive. I find that while most rules are contained in the rule section, a lot of the core components are also explained in the character creation section. "These are attributes, they govern your PCs ability to preform other-worldly feats. Each one is measured on a scale of d1 - d100, with different dice levels assigned for various power levels and abilities". Why do I need to know how to grapple on top of a plane moving at fast speeds, before I've even got my character? I find those rules make so much more sense once I've got a character standing before me. Use the character creation section to easily easy the player into the core ideas, giving them enough structure and flavour so they can successfully make a character.

However, I'm biased. I enjoy character generation far more than reading through monotonous rules.

[Rob Lang]

[NoobHealer]

Personally, I don't think it really matters much. Before you play through a game you will need to have read both sections regardless of the order.

Primarily though, I find the character section to be a good way of introducing the player to WHO they are expected to become. If a person knows that they will be a street rat in olden days London, they will understand why the rules on pickpocketing are complicated. Having learned of the potential character the rules are put into perspective.

The mechanical sections also tends to be far less creative and engaging. Boring sections rarely make a good way to engage a player and make them interested in continuing. This CAN be avoided through interesting examples and avoiding too many rules... but it takes work.

I do tend to like CA's option three. It was in that format that I first learned how to play Dungeons and Dragons. It began as a simple solo game without a defined character and slowly evolved into a group of players with their own heroes. I've actually tried to use the format a couple times in the past including my Game Chef game "Fate Weavers" a few years back.

I just find that having well written and interesting rules are far more important than which section comes first.

[Georgedoe]

Greetings to all of you,

Newbie in this forum. I wrote Multi10, the game Rob refers to (by the way, thanks again for looking at it). Based on your comments, I think you've sold me on the idea of putting character creation before the main rules. This of course means that I'll have to expand the character section with a basic introduction of mechanics and abilities as well as alter the layout of the document.

In sort, you've ruined my next few weekends. I hope you're all happy